GustavoLeao

BEYOND and My Mid-Life Crisis

Recommended Posts

You know, in everything you do, in everything you work or love, life is full of choices and phases. While I admit that posting again and again on this forum that STAR TREK BEYOND was not performing well at the US box office was kind of a mistake, I think that was mostly a result from my current "phase" regarding lost of interest in STAR TREK and a mid-life crisis as a "has been Star Trek fan". Yep, I lost my lust and desire for STAR TREK in the past 15 years (damn you, ENTERPRISE and NEMESIS LOL) but thats only mean that a) I still have love on my heart for TOS and TNG and even DS9 and b) that someday, I just may discovered STAR TREK again and fall in love with it all over again (DISCOVERY anyone ?). JJ TREK is just not for me, its the kinda of blockbuster action movies fare that is hard to me to enjoy as the past STAR TREKs. I am also not fond of the JJ cast (the least said about my opinion on Pine and Quinto the better, sorry about that, I know I am in the minority here). But I am not happy about those poor BEYOND numbers, because I want this movie to succeed, even if its not my kind of TREK movie. These days I am just enjoying MARVEL Studios stuff and sci-fi animes (really). If my negative take on BEYOND did offend anybody here, I apologize, You are right in poiting to me that, enough is enough and BEYOND could still perform well overseas. But dont bet on it. There is always possibilities, huh.

Gus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can understand that.

 

And I know that it wasn't your intention, A) You've said it above and B) I've "internet known" you awhile, so I know. But it rubs me the wrong way initially sometimes because it comes off like your rooting for/happy that it's not blowing the doors off the place.

Because, really, Beyond is a pretty good film. It is at least holding second this week box office-wise and holding better than expected against Bourne.

I admit to occasionally being happy if a movie fails. That is to say, if Suicide Squad falls flat on its posterior, not only will I not be shocked, I'll probably let a few snickers loose.

 

I find it interesting that, at this point, all of the advertising is basically, "Margot Robbie is Suicide Squad.... You know...with....ummm...Wil Smith and some other people." 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember back in 2006-2007 when news of what the new films were going to be was announced, this distanced you even further from the franchise. In your eyes, TOS was scared and the gold standard. Even though using the TOS characters really was the only way to go to rejuvenate a stale and dying franchise, you were steadfast in not at all being supportive of the new films and what they had to accomplish. I will say again though, if it wasn't for the critical and commercial success of J.J.'s films, there would likely be no new Star Trek TV series in 2017. You need mainstream audiences to want to see Star Trek and that hadn't been the case since the mid-90s.

 

-- Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

09remember back in 2006-2007 when news of what the new films were going to be was announced, this distanced you even further from the franchise. In your eyes, TOS was scared and the gold standard. Even though using the TOS characters really was the only way to go to rejuvenate a stale and dying franchise, you were steadfast in not at all being supportive of the new films and what they had to accomplish. I will say again though, if it wasn't for the critical and commercial success of J.J.'s films, there would likely be no new Star Trek TV series in 2017. You need mainstream audiences to want to see Star Trek and that hadn't been the case since the mid-90s.

 

-- Steve

This is completely true. As the "Everything Great About..." guy on Youtube said when speaking of '09, he actually knew several people that started sampling other Trek based on Pine and the gang and isn't that the point?

 

Had '09 and STID died on the vine, the likelihood of "Discovery" would have been pretty slim. For every high concept thing like "The Visitor," there has to be room for episodes like "The Doomsday Machine."

All that and...Trek has to make money. It just does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

prometheus59650,

Not at all and I agree with you, I am not glad that BEYOND dropped at the box office and I am not rooting for its failure. I just posted the links because I thought it was interesting that the best loved JJ TREK movie was doing worst than the previous two "maligned" movies. But yeah, I should have post just a link and get over with it. Blame this one too on my current mid-life crisis LOL

Gus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

prometheus59650,

Not at all and I agree with you, I am not glad that BEYOND dropped at the box office and I am not rooting for its failure. I just posted the links because I thought it was interesting that the best loved JJ TREK movie was doing worst than the previous two "maligned" movies. But yeah, I should have post just a link and get over with it. Blame this one too on my current mid-life crisis LOL

Gus

I wouldn't even say the 2009 film was maligned at all. Based on all the word of mouth I heard at the time (and the insane 95% Rotten Tomatoes rating), the first film was by far the most popular of the three. Into Darkness was the one that irked die-hard fans with it's rehash of the Khan plot, but non-fans wouldn't recognize any that... and that's why it made more money than the 2009 film did! I think if Beyond ends up not being as successful at the box office it's because Star Trek has more trouble holding regular non-fans than Star Wars does. Which makes the 4th film with Chris Hemsworth (who's a very popular mega-star) all that more crucial. I'm willing to bet the budget on the next film will be scaled back as well.

-- Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

prometheus59650,

Not at all and I agree with you, I am not glad that BEYOND dropped at the box office and I am not rooting for its failure. I just posted the links because I thought it was interesting that the best loved JJ TREK movie was doing worst than the previous two "maligned" movies. But yeah, I should have post just a link and get over with it. Blame this one too on my current mid-life crisis LOL

Gus

I wouldn't even say the 2009 film was maligned at all. Based on all the word of mouth I heard at the time (and the insane 95% Rotten Tomatoes rating), the first film was by far the most popular of the three. Into Darkness was the one that irked die-hard fans with it's rehash of the Khan plot, but non-fans wouldn't recognize any that... and that's why it made more money than the 2009 film did! I think if Beyond ends up not being as successful at the box office it's because Star Trek has more trouble holding regular non-fans than Star Wars does. Which makes the 4th film with Chris Hemsworth (who's a very popular mega-star) all that more crucial. I'm willing to bet the budget on the next film will be scaled back as well.

-- Steve

'09 definitely wasn't maligned. When it came out I literally sat with soccer moms in the row that openly wept as George Kirk rammed the Narada, knowing he'd never see his son grow up. Months later I walked past people on the way to another show that were talking about their summer and they talked about the film with one saying, "that one really came out of nowhere, it was so good."

 

If it was knocked by anyone, it was by a small cadre of fans who believed that Kirk and Spock and company (and to an only slightly lesser extent Shatner, Nimoy, etc. are sacred cows and that TOS should be forever untouched.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Completely understandable Gus, and I don't believe you've offended anyone in the process. I'm probably one of the most exited people for Beyond around here, and I didn't feel insulted by any of your posts.  At all.

Besides, I can see what you mean. By the time SW episode 7 was out I had sure Disney would kill what was left of the series and completely destroyed it. I was even worse than you, I was really rooting for the movie to fail, because I didn't want to see my beloved characters destroyed like they did with Vader in the prequels. 

I was wrong though, Abrams did a great job and the series will continue proudly. But I still have fears for Rogue One, as it's set before the current time and it's another prequel. I'm not rooting for it to fail this time though. Lol.

Anyway, I'm glad you came to realize that, I believe it must have had a bigger impact in yourself than in the rest of us. Because really, you didn't post anything wrong, and as far as I know has always been kind and polite when exposing your opinions. There's noting to be sorry about buddie. :happy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know how you feel, GustavoLeao. I still feel the same way about these movies. I don't necessarily want them to "fail". And if people enjoy them, then more power to them. But my interest in Star Trek has waned considerably while this is the only "Trek" we've had the past couple of years.

My interest has piqued with Star Trek: Discovery, though. Hopefully, in the words of a character from another franchise, "This will begin to make things right." My hope is that the show will renew my interest in Star Trek once more.

It might for you too. :) if anything, as stated above, the Abramsverse gave Trek a new lease on life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

prometheus59650,

Not at all and I agree with you, I am not glad that BEYOND dropped at the box office and I am not rooting for its failure. I just posted the links because I thought it was interesting that the best loved JJ TREK movie was doing worst than the previous two "maligned" movies. But yeah, I should have post just a link and get over with it. Blame this one too on my current mid-life crisis LOL

Gus

I wouldn't even say the 2009 film was maligned at all. Based on all the word of mouth I heard at the time (and the insane 95% Rotten Tomatoes rating), the first film was by far the most popular of the three. Into Darkness was the one that irked die-hard fans with it's rehash of the Khan plot, but non-fans wouldn't recognize any that... and that's why it made more money than the 2009 film did! I think if Beyond ends up not being as successful at the box office it's because Star Trek has more trouble holding regular non-fans than Star Wars does. Which makes the 4th film with Chris Hemsworth (who's a very popular mega-star) all that more crucial. I'm willing to bet the budget on the next film will be scaled back as well.

-- Steve

If it was knocked by anyone, it was by a small cadre of fans who believed that Kirk and Spock and company (and to an only slightly lesser extent Shatner, Nimoy, etc. are sacred cows and that TOS should be forever untouched.

EXACTLY. And those fans lay in wait and when Into Darkness came out, that was their chance to "justify" their earlier opinions - even though the film wasn't really bad and was very successful (especially overseas) to boot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

prometheus59650,

Not at all and I agree with you, I am not glad that BEYOND dropped at the box office and I am not rooting for its failure. I just posted the links because I thought it was interesting that the best loved JJ TREK movie was doing worst than the previous two "maligned" movies. But yeah, I should have post just a link and get over with it. Blame this one too on my current mid-life crisis LOL

Gus

I wouldn't even say the 2009 film was maligned at all. Based on all the word of mouth I heard at the time (and the insane 95% Rotten Tomatoes rating), the first film was by far the most popular of the three. Into Darkness was the one that irked die-hard fans with it's rehash of the Khan plot, but non-fans wouldn't recognize any that... and that's why it made more money than the 2009 film did! I think if Beyond ends up not being as successful at the box office it's because Star Trek has more trouble holding regular non-fans than Star Wars does. Which makes the 4th film with Chris Hemsworth (who's a very popular mega-star) all that more crucial. I'm willing to bet the budget on the next film will be scaled back as well.

-- Steve

If it was knocked by anyone, it was by a small cadre of fans who believed that Kirk and Spock and company (and to an only slightly lesser extent Shatner, Nimoy, etc. are sacred cows and that TOS should be forever untouched.

EXACTLY. And those fans lay in wait and when Into Darkness came out, that was their chance to "justify" their earlier opinions - even though the film wasn't really bad and was very successful (especially overseas) to boot.

^
I agree to disagree that STID wasn't 'that bad'; to me, as a big fan of ST09, I thought STID was just awful.  But that's another thread... 
:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

prometheus59650,

Not at all and I agree with you, I am not glad that BEYOND dropped at the box office and I am not rooting for its failure. I just posted the links because I thought it was interesting that the best loved JJ TREK movie was doing worst than the previous two "maligned" movies. But yeah, I should have post just a link and get over with it. Blame this one too on my current mid-life crisis LOL

Gus

I wouldn't even say the 2009 film was maligned at all. Based on all the word of mouth I heard at the time (and the insane 95% Rotten Tomatoes rating), the first film was by far the most popular of the three. Into Darkness was the one that irked die-hard fans with it's rehash of the Khan plot, but non-fans wouldn't recognize any that... and that's why it made more money than the 2009 film did! I think if Beyond ends up not being as successful at the box office it's because Star Trek has more trouble holding regular non-fans than Star Wars does. Which makes the 4th film with Chris Hemsworth (who's a very popular mega-star) all that more crucial. I'm willing to bet the budget on the next film will be scaled back as well.

-- Steve

If it was knocked by anyone, it was by a small cadre of fans who believed that Kirk and Spock and company (and to an only slightly lesser extent Shatner, Nimoy, etc. are sacred cows and that TOS should be forever untouched.

EXACTLY. And those fans lay in wait and when Into Darkness came out, that was their chance to "justify" their earlier opinions - even though the film wasn't really bad and was very successful (especially overseas) to boot.

^
I agree to disagree that STID wasn't 'that bad'; to me, as a big fan of ST09, I thought STID was just awful.  But that's another thread... 
:P

 

No hard feelings, Vie. It's okay for you to be wrong. :P

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kenman   

prometheus59650,

Not at all and I agree with you, I am not glad that BEYOND dropped at the box office and I am not rooting for its failure. I just posted the links because I thought it was interesting that the best loved JJ TREK movie was doing worst than the previous two "maligned" movies. But yeah, I should have post just a link and get over with it. Blame this one too on my current mid-life crisis LOL

Gus

I wouldn't even say the 2009 film was maligned at all. Based on all the word of mouth I heard at the time (and the insane 95% Rotten Tomatoes rating), the first film was by far the most popular of the three. Into Darkness was the one that irked die-hard fans with it's rehash of the Khan plot, but non-fans wouldn't recognize any that... and that's why it made more money than the 2009 film did! I think if Beyond ends up not being as successful at the box office it's because Star Trek has more trouble holding regular non-fans than Star Wars does. Which makes the 4th film with Chris Hemsworth (who's a very popular mega-star) all that more crucial. I'm willing to bet the budget on the next film will be scaled back as well.

-- Steve

If it was knocked by anyone, it was by a small cadre of fans who believed that Kirk and Spock and company (and to an only slightly lesser extent Shatner, Nimoy, etc. are sacred cows and that TOS should be forever untouched.

EXACTLY. And those fans lay in wait and when Into Darkness came out, that was their chance to "justify" their earlier opinions - even though the film wasn't really bad and was very successful (especially overseas) to boot.

^
I agree to disagree that STID wasn't 'that bad'; to me, as a big fan of ST09, I thought STID was just awful.  But that's another thread... 
:P

 

No hard feelings, Vie. It's okay for you to be wrong. :P

 

The same can be said for you Prom! No hard feelings shall be had on how wrong you are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If it was knocked by anyone, it was by a small cadre of fans who believed that Kirk and Spock and company (and to an only slightly lesser extent Shatner, Nimoy, etc. are sacred cows and that TOS should be forever untouched.

I believe that, at the time, I believe that I was very much that kind of fan, yes.

If anything, I gained some perspective and a better understanding of people's opinion on that matters when I left TrekWeb.

Things kinda change and you adapt.

I am no fan of the JJ verse but at least I come to understand why it exists and why a great number of people love it.

Gus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

prometheus59650,

Not at all and I agree with you, I am not glad that BEYOND dropped at the box office and I am not rooting for its failure. I just posted the links because I thought it was interesting that the best loved JJ TREK movie was doing worst than the previous two "maligned" movies. But yeah, I should have post just a link and get over with it. Blame this one too on my current mid-life crisis LOL

Gus

I wouldn't even say the 2009 film was maligned at all. Based on all the word of mouth I heard at the time (and the insane 95% Rotten Tomatoes rating), the first film was by far the most popular of the three. Into Darkness was the one that irked die-hard fans with it's rehash of the Khan plot, but non-fans wouldn't recognize any that... and that's why it made more money than the 2009 film did! I think if Beyond ends up not being as successful at the box office it's because Star Trek has more trouble holding regular non-fans than Star Wars does. Which makes the 4th film with Chris Hemsworth (who's a very popular mega-star) all that more crucial. I'm willing to bet the budget on the next film will be scaled back as well.

-- Steve

If it was knocked by anyone, it was by a small cadre of fans who believed that Kirk and Spock and company (and to an only slightly lesser extent Shatner, Nimoy, etc. are sacred cows and that TOS should be forever untouched.

EXACTLY. And those fans lay in wait and when Into Darkness came out, that was their chance to "justify" their earlier opinions - even though the film wasn't really bad and was very successful (especially overseas) to boot.

^
I agree to disagree that STID wasn't 'that bad'; to me, as a big fan of ST09, I thought STID was just awful.  But that's another thread... 
:P

 

No hard feelings, Vie. It's okay for you to be wrong. :P

 

The same can be said for you Prom! No hard feelings shall be had on how wrong you are.

I thought I was wrong once, but that was later proven to be someone else's mistake :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Star Trek Beyond does not deserve this drop, I thought it was great. The time between the Star Trek 09 and STID was damaging and then STID the Khan story.

I think the cast is great, all of them: Pine has grown into the role and Urban as Dr McCoy is a tribute itself.

If anyone has not seen Beyond then please go and see, don't let the last movie get in the way. 

For Star Trek 4 I don't necessary want to see Kirk's daddy again, but further adventures of this crew beyond the original 5 year mission,

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sim   

Hey Gus, I just have to say you're a great guy. Indeed you are.

It once was your passion for Star Trek that started you into this endeavour of working for TrekWeb, to keep up there even after the site owner had abandoned it, and I'm not sure what kept you going, if it was a sense of responsibility towards the fans and friends you met there, the passionate people who greatly appreciated your work, or the familiarity with the topic, or both; all the connections you've made, and all the investments you've done into this topic. Even when TrekWeb collapsed, you continued posting here, which was greatly appreciated by all your good old and new fan friends, and you can be sure you have found many people who appreciate you and admire your work here.

In political science, there is a concept that's called "path dependency"; it basically means that once the track is set, you can't easily abandon it, because so many people have made the same decision, and too much depends on it to change it, even when there are good reasons to do so. The layout of common typewriter and computer keyboards is such an example -- you have the "qwerty" keyboard, and although studies have found that other orders of the letters on the keyboard are much more efficient in theory, all new keyboards retain this order, because hundreds of thousands of people are used to it, have been schooled to work with it, and the costs of reschooling these people with a new keyboard layout would be much higher than the efficiency benefits of a new layout.

But this is not a technical matter, Gus, it's your life and passion. You feel that a great part of your life, Star Trek and the devotion to it, falls apart from your passion. Or don't you?

So it's really your decision to figure out for yourself... and certainly I can only speak for myself here. But I want to tell you that you will just be greatly appreciated here, as a mere, somewhat anonymous genre fan on this forum, even if you decided to abandon your devotion for Star Trek. You are not dependent on your "path". You've posted here so often that I feel I have an idea about you, and you're just as appreciated, included and welcome as anybody else, even if you suddenly decided to be nobody else than just "Gus the Marvel fan". Nobody would resent your disinterest in modern Star Trek.

So by all means -- you are under no obligation whatsoever to justify your dislike of AbramsTrek or even ST17, if you should dislike it, or feel dispassionate about it. You're still one of us, and your past contributions won't be forgotten, and you'll always be welcome here. :)

So yeah, really no need to feel ashamed or apologize. Many people dislike NuTrek. No big deal. ;)

Edited by Sim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, Sim, I dont know what to say to you right now. I am spechless.

Thank you, so much !

Its great to be here with good friends like you.

Best regards,

Gus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sim is right. You don't have to justify anything, Gus. I don't care for Nu!Trek either, but just because I have decided to completely ignore it (and a great deal of other Trek stuff I dislike, too, since I'm not a die hard Trek fan I have the luxury of simply PICKING what I want to see/like, the name "Star Trek" doesn't automatically make me interested) doesn't mean that others can do the same. I've had frustrated Trek fans tell me that they envy how "zen" I am about the whole Nu!Trek thing by now. I guess they have a point, maybe. I just don't CARE about it, I want nothing to do with it, I've never seen it, and I don't plan on changing that, and that's all there is to it, just let me watch my beloved TNG in peace.

All this does not change the fact that Nu!Trek is there, of course. They made it, and they will keep on making it as long as they can milk cash from it. Those who dislike it are faced with three options: Ignore it, voice the problems you have with it or embrace it eventually. You, Gus, chose the second option and there's nothing wrong with that. I for one think it's refreshing to see that there are still people who say "nah folks, Nu!Trek ain't for me, no matter what they do, I'll never fall in love with it". It's as valid an opinion to have as any other. I know what it's like when (well-meaning!) fans try to push you into watching it or wanting for you to become interested and like it after all, and it takes a lot of "being zen" to just tell them - politely - that you would rather not and that it ain't for you and that you would prefer it if they just left you be. Trekkies are very enthusiastic and very passionate, and they simply want to share their experiences, good or bad, and it can be a little frustrating for both sides to tell them "nah sorry not this one for me, please".

Of course, for you Gus, things are even more difficult since you have always been so involved with Trek. I for one can understand completely that you're torn between your love for Old Trek and your frustration about Nu!Trek and that this inner conflict just wants out sometimes.

In short: You got this, Gus. You're trying your best to find a balance, and I for one think that's commendable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw STAR TREK BEYOND at a preview with a few old friends last night.

I dont wanna to begin another debate here, but is safe to say I didnt enjoy it as you guys did.

tvh0268.jpg

"Angels and ministers of grace, defend us!"

"Hamlet, Act One, Scene Four."

"No doubt about your memory, Spock."

But was fun to see a Trek movie with the old gang, thats for sure,

Gus

Edited by GustavoLeao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw STAR TREK BEYOND at a preview with a few old friends last night.

I dont wanna to begin another debate here, but is safe to say I didnt enjoy it as you guys did.

tvh0268.jpg

"Angels and ministers of grace, defend us!"

"Hamlet, Act One, Scene Four."

"No doubt about your memory, Spock."

But was fun to see a Trek movie with the old gang, thats for sure,

Gus

Well, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it as much as some of us hoped, but I'm glad you gave it a look.   As Kirk says, "Young minds, fresh ideas.  Be tolerant."  ;)

I'm proud of you, Gus.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kenman   

A shame Gus, but now that you gave it a whirl...and it wasn't for you...I guess you are really done with the movies. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the heads up, Gus! If you didn't enjoy it, I'll take it as one MORE reason for me stay away from it altogether. Sorry that you didn't have a good time with it though, of course. Always a shame when one doesn't enjoy the movie one is watching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the heads up, Gus! If you didn't enjoy it, I'll take it as one MORE reason for me stay away from it altogether. Sorry that you didn't have a good time with it though, of course. Always a shame when one doesn't enjoy the movie one is watching.

To be fair, if you were waiting for Gus's approval of Beyond in order to justify seeing it, that tells us you really never wanted to see it to begin with. :P I'd still give it a go though, as most Into Darkness naysayers liked it a lot which should give you hope. I mean, in the end? It's only 2 hours of your life - in air conditioning! :thumbup:

Edited by Cdydatzigs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites