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GustavoLeao

The Future of the Marvel Cinematic Universe ! Yay !

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SK, I'm not a mod, but this is already skirting, 'Things I'm not going to be able to walk back even though I'd love to,' so, please do a Frozen and let this go.

 

It's got bad vibes all over it.

Absolutely no bad vibes intended. :)

Michael Cera IS... Black Panther.  :laugh:

1458349002242

 

Sorry, but I could NOT resist... :giggle:

 

It's more of a general comment on changing ethnicities, and I know you didn't make any point on that.  But your comment made me think about how that this movie is exactly what I mean when I argue against changing ethnicities.

I'm not sure I understand exactly how point A led to point B, but oh well.   

At any rate, I agree with Robin's point that it's nice to see more of the real world reflected in cinema (the world I live in, anyway).    

 

SK, I'm not a mod, but this is already skirting, 'Things I'm not going to be able to walk back even though I'd love to,' so, please do a Frozen and let this go.

 

Agreed.  
Let's all just take a step back from any potential KM territory here...

process-mapping-step-back.gif :)

Michael Cera should play some character in the MCU, but I dunno who.

The new Nick Fury, maybe.

Or a rebooted Thor... :giggle:

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Plus we've argued that whole changing the character's skin colour topic to death in other threads. It doesn't lead anywhere. 

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Plus we've argued that whole changing the character's skin colour topic to death in other threads. It doesn't lead anywhere. 

Except straight to the Kobayashi Maru section.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe we actually HAVE a thread dedicated to that very topic down there ('down there'.... sounds like it's in hell, doesn't it? :laugh: ).

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There's the Miles Morales's SPIDER-MAN animated movie coming soon.

Gus

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There's the Miles Morales's SPIDER-MAN animated movie coming soon.

Gus

And hopefully a live-action movie someday.   No offense to the kid in Civil War, but I'd like a new take on the character sometime. 

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If they are going to introduce a Marvel multiverse, Miles will be on one of the other worlds, and if they follow the cartoon, Peter will meet him and bring him to the proper Marvelverse.

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If they are going to introduce a Marvel multiverse, Miles will be on one of the other worlds, and if they follow the cartoon, Peter will meet him and bring him to the proper Marvelverse.

Personally I hope they don't introduce a Marvel multiverse; that's too confusing for a mainstream audience IMO.   I think it'd be easier to just have Miles befriend Peter, then ally with him (as Rhodey did in Iron Man), then eventually replace him. 

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If they are going to introduce a Marvel multiverse, Miles will be on one of the other worlds, and if they follow the cartoon, Peter will meet him and bring him to the proper Marvelverse.

Personally I hope they don't introduce a Marvel multiverse; that's too confusing for a mainstream audience IMO.   I think it'd be easier to just have Miles befriend Peter, then ally with him (as Rhodey did in Iron Man), then eventually replace him. 

:thumbup:

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The multiverse should be making a debut in Doctor Strange.  Miles is FROM another universe.  It's the best way to bring him in.

 

People are smart enough.

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The multiverse should be making a debut in Doctor Strange.  Miles is FROM another universe.  It's the best way to bring him in.

 

People are smart enough.

Marvel's on a lucky streak; they should keep it linear.   

And I don't care if Miles is from the Hamptons; this is an ADAPTATION, not a comic book.   It doesn't have to track 100% faithful to the book.   Different mediums.   Age of Ultron tried to complicate things and it misfired a bit.   So did Iron Man 2 (which had about 30 subplots).   I've no problem with Doctor Strange introducing a multiverse in that movie, but I wouldn't use it as a catchall for things that could be easily taken care of in ONE. 

Miles introduction should be organic and natural; not some kind of supernatural guy from another universe.   He's just a guy; not a superman from the planet Krypton. 

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The multiverse should be making a debut in Doctor Strange.  Miles is FROM another universe.  It's the best way to bring him in.

 

People are smart enough.

Marvel's on a lucky streak; they should keep it linear.   

And I don't care if Miles is from the Hamptons; this is an ADAPTATION, not a comic book.   It doesn't have to track 100% faithful to the book.   Different mediums.   Age of Ultron tried to complicate things and it misfired a bit.   So did Iron Man 2 (which had about 30 subplots).   I've no problem with Doctor Strange introducing a multiverse in that movie, but I wouldn't use it as a catchall for things that could be easily taken care of in ONE. 

Miles introduction should be organic and natural; not some kind of supernatural guy from another universe.   He's just a guy; not a superman from the planet Krypton. 

Hmmm..if I may borrow your words....

Marvel's on a lucky streak; they should expand. Btw, in their case, it's not really luck. They've really worked hard at showing us a coherent story with great actors. The multiverse can be explored and Doctor Strange is the right character to do it. They shouldn't go nuts on it though. Just a bit. 

However, not that I'm much of a comic book fan, I feel that the multiverse stuff is more of DC's thing. I realize both franchises use this device. 

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The multiverse should be making a debut in Doctor Strange.  Miles is FROM another universe.  It's the best way to bring him in.

 

People are smart enough.

Marvel's on a lucky streak; they should keep it linear.   

And I don't care if Miles is from the Hamptons; this is an ADAPTATION, not a comic book.   It doesn't have to track 100% faithful to the book.   Different mediums.   Age of Ultron tried to complicate things and it misfired a bit.   So did Iron Man 2 (which had about 30 subplots).   I've no problem with Doctor Strange introducing a multiverse in that movie, but I wouldn't use it as a catchall for things that could be easily taken care of in ONE. 

Miles introduction should be organic and natural; not some kind of supernatural guy from another universe.   He's just a guy; not a superman from the planet Krypton. 

Hmmm..if I may borrow your words....

Marvel's on a lucky streak; they should expand. Btw, in their case, it's not really luck. They've really worked hard at showing us a coherent story with great actors. The multiverse can be explored and Doctor Strange is the right character to do it. They shouldn't go nuts on it though. Just a bit. 

However, not that I'm much of a comic book fan, I feel that the multiverse stuff is more of DC's thing. I realize both franchises use this device. 

^
So do I, but I recognize that movies and comic books aren't necessary congruent.   Multiverses are a nice (and often convenient) science fiction device to use, but comic book movies are a bit more mainstream than say, a Star Trek movie.   You don't need a primer to understand a guy in a cape punching a bunch of zombie robots.  

That's part of why these comic book movies are so successful; they give enough nuggets to the comic book faithful, but they're also savvy enough to understand the needs of broader appeal as well as foreign markets. 

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Replace Peter Parker ? Now that MARVEL finally got him right on the big screen in CIVIL WAR (best movie of the year) ???

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Edited by GustavoLeao

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Peter Parker is too important of a character to replace.  But with the idea of a multiverse, you can certainly have an alternate version of Parker die.  The proper one will be ok and still doing his thing.

That's the best way to introduce Morales.  Since he's FROM an alternate universe anyway, let's have Peter venture to that universe--see a world in which he died a heroic death, and meet his replacement--who is just a normal kid with the same powers, trying to live up to that legend.  You'll get the story from both points of view. 

If Miles is popular enough, you bring him back for his own movie.  A decision could be made about bringing him into the proper universe, and you now have a new storyline of a Spider-Man that's not the original one, is not in his own universe, and wants to go home, but still remains the hero.  There's some seriously good stuff here.

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Peter Parker is too important of a character to replace.  But with the idea of a multiverse, you can certainly have an alternate version of Parker die.  The proper one will be ok and still doing his thing.

That's the best way to introduce Morales.  Since he's FROM an alternate universe anyway, let's have Peter venture to that universe--see a world in which he died a heroic death, and meet his replacement--who is just a normal kid with the same powers, trying to live up to that legend.  You'll get the story from both points of view. 

If Miles is popular enough, you bring him back for his own movie.  A decision could be made about bringing him into the proper universe, and you now have a new storyline of a Spider-Man that's not the original one, is not in his own universe, and wants to go home, but still remains the hero.  There's some seriously good stuff here.

Again; don't care if Miles is FROM an alternate universe in the comics.... these are movies, not comic books.  You gum up the works in a movie and the audience is left confused.   The Marvelverse movies are already starting to feel more than a bit top-heavy.  If they start piling alternate realities onto the Avengers movies, I'm afraid the audience will start to slip into a sensory overload coma.   Too much is too much.  

As for killing off Peter Parker's alternate self but leaving him alive in our universe?   That's a dramatic cheat.   What's the point of killing Parker off if he has a handy doppelgänger over in the next reality?   Death only has meaning when there is a sense of dramatic finality about it (even Spock in TWOK; we fans didn't KNOW he was coming back a couple years later... it wasn't a foregone conclusion).    Miles has to be the one and ONLY Spiderman for it to have any meaning.   He can learn from Parker as he befriends him, but when he puts on the costume for good?  He has to be the ONLY one.   It's Spider Man, not Spider Men

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If he's not from another universe, the character doesn't mean anything.  He'll just be a copy. 

Audiences aren't stupid.  They introduced the concept of the Marvel multiverse in a Spider-Man cartoon.  If 10 years can grasp it, so can the movie going audience. 

There is no point in killing the main Peter Parker.  All that does is cloud the franchise and piss off the fans--and Parker IS Spider-Man.

It accomplishes no good.  But the point of alternate universes are to show what ifs.  Peter himself would see what the world is like if he died in battle.  It's not about killing Peter--it's about Peter seeing things in a what if capacity.  Miles would be part of that aftermath.

If there can be only one, it has to be Parker.  But there doesn't have to be only one. 

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If he's not from another universe, the character doesn't mean anything.  He'll just be a copy. 

I genuinely don't understand this statement; he's a copy if he has another self standing by from another universe.   If he befriends Parker and replacing him he is avenging a friend's death and taking up his fight.   I don't really understand what you mean. 

Audiences aren't stupid.  They introduced the concept of the Marvel multiverse in a Spider-Man cartoon.  If 10 years can grasp it, so can the movie going audience. 

That's a very myopic view.   Only the hardcore faithful watch the cartoons.   That's a tiny fraction of the audience for a mainstream movie.   That's like saying fans of the Bad Robot Star Trek movies are all guaranteed to love Voyager...

There is no point in killing the main Peter Parker.  All that does is cloud the franchise and piss off the fans--and Parker IS Spider-Man.

It accomplishes no good.  But the point of alternate universes are to show what ifs.  Peter himself would see what the world is like if he died in battle.  It's not about killing Peter--it's about Peter seeing things in a what if capacity.  Miles would be part of that aftermath.

If there can be only one, it has to be Parker.  But there doesn't have to be only one. 

Miles Morales is ALSO Spiderman. 

Spiderman is also a mantle, not just a social security number... 

As for the pissed off fans?  So what?   Nick Meyer did it best; the trick is to give the fans what they need, not what they want.   If you only give them the same formula over and over again, you might as well be throwing out tasteless pablum.   You NEED to shake things up to keep them from stagnation.   And Meyer knows a lot about pissing off fans too (TWOK's death of Spock earned him, Bennett and Nimoy death threats). 

I'd bet you there are scores of people who watch & enjoy the Marvel movies who don't even remember Spiderman's real name....

 

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I genuinely don't understand this statement; he's a copy if he has another self standing by from another universe.   If he befriends Parker and replacing him he is avenging a friend's death and taking up his fight.   I don't really understand what you mean. 

He would just come off as a PC copy of Peter.  Again, it would merely be changing a character's race just for Hollywood to pat themselves on the back.  Peter IS Spidey. 

That's a very myopic view.   Only the hardcore faithful watch the cartoons.   That's a tiny fraction of the audience for a mainstream movie.   That's like saying fans of the Bad Robot Star Trek movies are all guaranteed to love Voyager...

 

Children like cartoons.  The Voyager analogy makes no sense.  Many hardcore fans hated that show because it was poorly written.  The point I'm making is that if a 10 year old can understand a multiverse, so can the mainstream audience.  They aren't stupid people.

 

Miles Morales is ALSO Spiderman. 

No he isn't.  He's the other Spiderman.

Clearly the fans are being given what they need--the proper Spider-Man--Peter Parker.

You shake things up by making good stories, not by killing legendary characters.  In fact, that's the sign of a lack of ideas and incompetence. 

 

 

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He would just come off as a PC copy of Peter.  Again, it would merely be changing a character's race just for Hollywood to pat themselves on the back.  Peter IS Spidey. 

(* groans *) 

I thought we'd put that PC crap to bed already... inclusion is not being PC; it's being fiscally savvy.   It's being aware of the fact that your audience will NOT be exclusively populated with white 20-30something males.  

 Children like cartoons.  The Voyager analogy makes no sense.  Many hardcore fans hated that show because it was poorly written.  The point I'm making is that if a 10 year old can understand a multiverse, so can the mainstream audience.  They aren't stupid people.

Children have an easier time grasping the fantastic than adults do; their imaginations are not limited by what is/isn't possible.   And like it or not, adult dollars will be the ones paying for Spidey's supper, not just children.  And the VGR analogy makes perfect sense; you're saying that because fans grasp the cartoon, EVERYONE should understand the same concepts when they're used in a movie.  I'm saying that mainstream moviegoing audiences aren't the same people who see a cartoon (which is a narrow niche audience).

No he isn't.  He's the other Spiderman.

 But he's still a Spiderman.   No one had any issues with the Ant-Man suit not being filled by Hank Pym in that movie; he passed the mantle to Scott Lang right up front, and no one cared.

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You shake things up by making good stories, not by killing legendary characters.  In fact, that's the sign of a lack of ideas and incompetence. 

I know that death of characters freaks you out, but it is not always a sign of desperation or lack of ideas or incompetence.  If Spock was never resurrected, his death scene would be just as well received as it is now (in fact some people, not me, believe that his resurrection hurt his otherwise flawless death scene).  A good death can be very effective both in terms of drama, and creatively.  Battlestar Galactica and Buffy also killed characters that were well liked unexpectedly.  And it drove drama, raised stakes, and made you constantly second guess what is safe. 

You have this thing in which if a character has longevity, it should be safe and protected from all harm or change. I highly disagree...because a legendary character becomes stagnant and dull if no changes are made to it, if they keep the status quo and do nothing new or creative with the character (and that includes drastic changes like death, or injuries, or just a change of race or costume color)...then what is the point of even telling new stories?  Just go back and sift through the old stuff...otherwise what the HELL is the point of even trying to tell new tales with them?

Edited by kenman

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Lets not forget the hardcover book SPIDER-VERSE, featuring Parker, Morales, Gwen Stacy (Spider-Girl) and all the Spider-Men from various universes (even the Spider-Man from the 1967 cartoon LOL) united against a major threat in the MARVEL multiverse. Proff that you can do a multiverse Spidey movie or animated movie with all those Spider-Men, sort of a "Crisis on Infinite Spider-Men". I loved the concept on SPIDER-VERSE comic books.

https://www.amazon.com/Spider-Verse-Dan-Slott/dp/078519035X/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1469719828&sr=8-1

519J1iU-HWL.jpg

 

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 Audiences aren't stupid.  They introduced the concept of the Marvel multiverse in a Spider-Man cartoon.  If 10 years can grasp it, so can the movie going audience. 

Yes, yes we are: Fast And The Furious, Transformers, etc....

As Vie said, a 10 year old has an incredible active imagination. Lots of book reading, schooling, talking with friends, etc.. A lot of input. This dies off in adulthood. You and I, because we're scifi fans(not because we are science nerds) know about parallel universes and such things. The average adult has no clue nor cares. Most Americans don't go to the movies to learn or be actively engaged. They just want to be entertained. Look at the explosions. Laugh a little. Try to get an average American to watch a movie in another language and ask them to read the subtitles. Ain't happening.  

I really do appreciate that you think of the audience as smart. Very optimistic. 

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Is this the General Marvel Discussion now?

 

An alternate reality?  :laugh:

I think this discussion about the Marvel cinematic universe just got derailed a bit... partly mea culpa.  :P

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