Corylea

Most DISAPPOINTING TOS Episode

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The "Alternative Factor" is quite a head-scratcher, and I know not one of TOS's better outings. The thing is since Kirk was matter and since he transferred into the anti-matter universe, wouldn't he have caused a "reaction" of some sort? And for that matter, "antimatter" Lazarus. Also, couldn't anti-Lazarus just be hanging out in his own universe while his mad double be stuck in the corridor after the ships were destroyed?

"The Savage Curtain" (with Abe Lincoln) wasn't exactly a bright spot either - in fact some of it almost rips from "Arena."

Not quite sure where I stand on this - but my parents abhorred "The Paradise Syndrome" (the one with the Preserver obelisk and that displaced Native American tribe).

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3 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

The "Alternative Factor" is quite a head-scratcher, and I know not one of TOS's better outings. The thing is since Kirk was matter and since he transferred into the anti-matter universe, wouldn't he have caused a "reaction" of some sort? And for that matter, "antimatter" Lazarus. Also, couldn't anti-Lazarus just be hanging out in his own universe while his mad double be stuck in the corridor after the ships were destroyed?

"The Savage Curtain" (with Abe Lincoln) wasn't exactly a bright spot either - in fact some of it almost rips from "Arena."

Not quite sure where I stand on this - but my parents abhorred "The Paradise Syndrome" (the one with the Preserver obelisk and that displaced Native American tribe).

Should have, but they were stretching the conceit of matter and like anti-matter pretty far in that they implied with Lazarus that there's only a real threat of boom if Lazarus meets Anti-Lazarus. So, under that conceit, Kirk would have to meet Anti-Kirk.

I dunno. I like the IDEA of "The Savage Curtain," it's the execution that's wanting.

I sort of agree with your parents. I can't quite say why, but something seems fundamentally...off in that episode.

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17 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Should have, but they were stretching the conceit of matter and like anti-matter pretty far in that they implied with Lazarus that there's only a real threat of boom if Lazarus meets Anti-Lazarus. So, under that conceit, Kirk would have to meet Anti-Kirk.

I dunno. I like the IDEA of "The Savage Curtain," it's the execution that's wanting.

I sort of agree with your parents. I can't quite say why, but something seems fundamentally...off in that episode.

Well, with "The Alternative Factor" - why couldn't they just trap mad Lazarus in the corridor by himself and have "anti-Lazarus" just sit out in his universe. Did anti-Lazarus HAVE to be there? Well, there probably wouldn't be time for the Enterprise to obliterate Lazarus's ship from orbit, so there's that. This was also an episode where the Enterprise's phasers weren't fully defined, they just "vaporized" the ship without any kind of explosion.

Yeah, the execution of "The Savage Curtain" was rather poorly done.

"Specter of the Gun" was also an abhorred episode by my parents - the whole OK Corral thing. Though Walter Koenig thought it was his favorite episode (no offense to him).

The Halloween episode "Catspaw" was also not a very high point either. One of the big problems was at the end you could see the strings on the true forms of Korob and Silvia (I think they were done away with for the re-mastered episode). The question is - how did they transport to that planet, and why were they hanging out on it knowing that in their true forms they wouldn't be able to survive on that world. "Wolf in the Fold" in my opinion made a far better Halloween episode.

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1 minute ago, Rusty0918 said:

. This was also an episode where the Enterprise's phasers weren't fully defined, they just "vaporized" the ship without any kind of explosion.

I think it boils down to, "vaporizing effect" is cheaper than an explosion.

 

With Savage Curtain, as I ponder it, I think Lincoln is the biggest problem. As a real historical figure that I know something about, it doesn't work with the rest of the fictional characters Surak? Colonel Green? They're fine because the producers can make them what they want. Lincoln is something else.

And that entrance for Lincoln is just awful.

Turn him into, say, Robert April, or some other figure historical to that universe and I think it would have worked way better.

8 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

"Specter of the Gun" was also an abhorred episode by my parents - the whole OK Corral thing. Though Walter Koenig thought it was his favorite episode (no offense to him).

I actually have grown to like it more as I've grown older and kind of just "get it" a little better. And it really is Spock's absolute best display of logic in the entire series.

 

10 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

The Halloween episode "Catspaw" was also not a very high point either. One of the big problems was at the end you could see the strings on the true forms of Korob and Silvia (I think they were done away with for the re-mastered episode). The question is - how did they transport to that planet, and why were they hanging out on it knowing that in their true forms they wouldn't be able to survive on that world. "Wolf in the Fold" in my opinion made a far better Halloween episode.

Agreed on both counts. I hate "Catspaw" and Jack the Ripper as a sci-fi creature is actually a pretty neat little contrivance.

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On 7/16/2017 at 10:00 PM, Sehlat Vie said:

I don’t recall it being an accident; Corby destroyed himself and Andrea deliberately.  He purposefully pulled the trigger.  Just saying...

These are the Voyages describes the original script had the shooting be an accident. It was filmed this way. Then they realized the ending did not work. The director used extras in the two guest stars costumes to film the close up of pulling the trigger. 

So as written there was no proper justification built into the script, foreshadowed and so forth, that would have made the suicide have a big emotional impact becasue the suicide was added in post production. If they'd done another pass at the script (which had already undergone many) they might have added some better character motivation. 

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10 minutes ago, Justin Snead said:

These are the Voyages describes the original script had the shooting be an accident. It was filmed this way. Then they realized the ending did not work. The director used extras in the two guest stars costumes to film the close up of pulling the trigger. 

So as written there was no proper justification built into the script, foreshadowed and so forth, that would have made the suicide have a big emotional impact becasue the suicide was added in post production. If they'd done another pass at the script (which had already undergone many) they might have added some better character motivation. 

(shrug) It still works for me and always did. Not everything has to be thoroughly foreshadowed over the course of the hour. I just always saw it as Corby's sudden realization that he really wasn't the man he thought he was anymore...or maybe a man at all and, "I just can't live this way." 

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5 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

(shrug) It still works for me and always did. Not everything has to be thoroughly foreshadowed over the course of the hour. I just always saw it as Corby's sudden realization that he really wasn't the man he thought he was anymore...or maybe a man at all and, "I just can't live this way." 

^

This.  And it doesn't really matter how it was scripted; the final word is in the edit.

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1 minute ago, Sehlat Vie said:

^

This.  And it doesn't really matter how it was scripted; the final word is in the edit.

Indeed. AsI recall, in the original Doomsday Machine script Decker lived.

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2 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Indeed. AsI recall, in the original Doomsday Machine script Decker lived.

I never knew that! Well in that New Voyage's episode "In Harm's Way," the planet killer somehow throws him back into the past, which really never made much sense in my books.

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