Corylea

Most DISAPPOINTING TOS Episode

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Sim   

Yes, very good point (about the time capsule)! :)

Thanks!

That, and I have a soft spot for hippies and civil disobedience. Making fun of authority, or making it look silly, is a thing I sympathize with very much... even moreso when it happens in a friendly and peaceful manner. What did they call Kirk? "Otto"? :P Hehehehe...

Yeah, me, too, as I guess you could tell.

You're just winding me up with that "Otto," right? :ohmy:  You know that the hippies called Kirk "Herbert" as an in-joke, using Herbert Solow's name.  Right?

 

It's been a while since I watched this episode... but didn't they call Spock "Herbert" and Kirk "Otto"? At any rate, they IIRC did so in the German dubbed version.

Oh -- and no, I didn't know it was because of Herbert Solow! Wow! Thanks for pointing me to it! That's great to know! :D

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Corylea   

You're just winding me up with that "Otto," right? :ohmy:  You know that the hippies called Kirk "Herbert" as an in-joke, using Herbert Solow's name.  Right?

It's been a while since I watched this episode... but didn't they call Spock "Herbert" and Kirk "Otto"? At any rate, they IIRC did so in the German dubbed version.

Oh -- and no, I didn't know it was because of Herbert Solow! Wow! Thanks for pointing me to it! That's great to know! :D

Wow, really?  In the English version, they consistently call Kirk "Herbert."  They try calling Spock "Herbert" once, but he tells them that he's not Herbert, and they tell him, "We reach."  Later, Kirk asks Spock what the heck "Herbert" means,  and Spock says, "It is somewhat uncomplimentary, Captain. Herbert was a minor official notorious for his rigid and limited patterns of thought."  In the English version, there's no Otto anywhere!

So, have you ever seen the English versions, or have you only heard the dubbed ones?  I hope you've had the opportunity to hear Leonard Nimoy's wonderful voice and also to hear Shatner's ... weirdly ... hesitating ... line readings. :)

So, what do the German voices for Kirk, Spock, and McCoy sound like?  Does McCoy have a different accent, in the way that De Kelley has a Southern accent in English?  Does the German Kirk sound as impassioned as Kirk can sound during some of his stirring speeches?  Does the German Spock have Leonard Nimoy's cool-but-not-robotic delivery?  Please tell all!

Edited by Corylea

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Sim   

You're just winding me up with that "Otto," right? :ohmy:  You know that the hippies called Kirk "Herbert" as an in-joke, using Herbert Solow's name.  Right?

It's been a while since I watched this episode... but didn't they call Spock "Herbert" and Kirk "Otto"? At any rate, they IIRC did so in the German dubbed version.

Oh -- and no, I didn't know it was because of Herbert Solow! Wow! Thanks for pointing me to it! That's great to know! :D

Wow, really?  In the English version, they consistently call Kirk "Herbert."  They try calling Spock "Herbert" once, but he tells them that he's not Herbert, and they tell him, "We reach."  Later, Kirk asks Spock what the heck "Herbert" means,  and Spock says, "It is somewhat uncomplimentary, Captain. Herbert was a minor official notorious for his rigid and limited patterns of thought."  In the English version, there's no Otto anywhere!

So, have you ever seen the English versions, or have you only heard the dubbed ones?  I hope you've had the opportunity to hear Leonard Nimoy's wonderful voice and also to hear Shatner's ... weirdly ... hesitating ... line readings. :)

So, what do the German voices for Kirk, Spock, and McCoy sound like?  Does McCoy have a different accent, in the way that De Kelley has a Southern accent in English?  Does the German Kirk sound as impassioned as Kirk can sound during some of his stirring speeches?  Does the German Spock have Leonard Nimoy's cool-but-not-robotic delivery?  Please tell all!

Ah, so no "Otto" in the English version! I wondered about that, as "Otto" sounds rather German. :D

I think I watched the original English version once or twice (thanks to the DVDs/BDs, which include both language tracks)... but TOS is the only Star Trek series I actually prefer in the German dubbed version. To a large part, that's probably due to nostalgia ... but I also feel in case of TOS, it wasn't just a shallow mass production dubbing, but a true reinterpretation done with a lot of love.

So while I've probably seen every TOS episode in English once or twice, most of the time I rewatch TOS, I choose the German version. :)

A while back, I wrote quite a lot about Star Trek in Germany:

I feel the German voice actors are very well chosen. Spock's voice, Herbert Weicker, in particular -- he's IMO perfect for the character, and not very unlike Nimoy.

 

Kirk was dubbed by the "King of German voice actors", G.G. Hoffmann, who has a very warm, charming, but manly voice, and also was the standard voice for many "hero" roles between the 50s and 70s -- like Clint Eastwood, Sean Connery, Paul Newman or Kirk Douglas. Some women and a gay friend told me Kirk sounds more "sexy" in German... I guess I can confirm that insofar as I feel he's more charming, and the voice underlines his "ladyman" character.

McCoy speaks normal standard German, but they found a nice solution for Scotty's accent: In German version, Scotty speaks standard, but a very colloquial language that's almost slang. That IMO a good way to transfer his character... though he sounds perhaps a tad less grumpy, but a bit cooler in German. Chekov has a bad fake Russian accent in the German version, too. ;)

But some voices change over the course of the series: In 1972-74, only 39 more "family friendly" episodes were cherry-picked, dubbed and broadcast in Germany. When a different channel dubbed the remaining 39 episodes (all but "Patterns of Force") in 1987, not all old voice actors were still available. McCoy's and Uhura's first voice actors had died already, so they had to be replaced. But IMO, that didn't matter much, because the new voice actors were very similar to the old ones.

McCoy's second voice, Randolf Kronberg, is IMO an especially talented voice actor -- for example, he IMO achieved an almost impossible thing: Dubbing Eddie Murphy successfully. Making McCoy sound like he used to, with his first voice, was an easy exercize for him, I guess.

Here a few clips, so you get an idea about the German voices:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoqVBmNFYdk

 

If some questions remained unanswered, please let me know! :D

 

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Sim   

 

Oh, and here, Robin Bland and I talked about the German version of Star Trek:

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kc1966   

The first episode that came to my mind was "The Omega Glory" as well. It all starts out so nicely and interestingly only to de-rail into utter "huh?!" at the end (especially if you're not from the US, it leaves you with an "are they serious" feeling that something is rather out of place).

And if you ARE from the US, it leaves you with a feeling of acute embarrassment and the urge to apologize to the rest of the world for the awfulness. :( 

 

Another episode I can think of is "Catspaw". It all starts great and creepy and then it's all about alien bird things on strings and Kirk breaking a magic wand and... huh? (Might be a cultural thing again though, Halloween just ain't THAT big here.)

Yes, you're right; that one also had some potential that was squandered.  The idea that the aliens were trying to play on the fears in the human unconscious could have been really cool -- and it would have been neat if they'd delved into Spock's mind, too, and showed us what fears are in the Vulcan unconscious -- but it seemed as if they kinda abandoned that idea partway through to have Sylvia try to seduce Kirk. :huh2: 

But then, they were making these episodes at break-neck pace, they never had enough money for what they wanted to do, and the special effects of the era weren't always up to what they would have liked to have shown.  The miracle of TOS is always that the episodes turned out as good as they did, given the constraints under which their makers were working. :inlove:

 

 

Hey, like with everything in history you have to be able to put it into the proper context. (One problem I have with judging historic figures by today's standards.  Lincoln would be considered a racist today, for example, and yet he was an enlightened man for his time on slavery.)

With Omega Glory, remember this the height of the Cold War.  U.S. against communism.  Add that to the fact that Mr. Roddenberry was a WWII vet and you can understand a little flag waving.  (Which I don't think is a bad thing IF it is done intelligently.  I will never apologize for loving my country.  Warts and all.)

 

As to my most disappointing episode, I guess it would be The Enemy Within.  The original episode that uses the transporter (technology) to get the writer's out of a box they had created.  First it splits Kirk into Jekyll and Hyde then it is used to merge them.  When did personality/morality become physical traits?

Edited by kc1966

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Corylea   

 

So, what do the German voices for Kirk, Spock, and McCoy sound like?  Does McCoy have a different accent, in the way that De Kelley has a Southern accent in English?  Does the German Kirk sound as impassioned as Kirk can sound during some of his stirring speeches?  Does the German Spock have Leonard Nimoy's cool-but-not-robotic delivery?  Please tell all!

 

A while back, I wrote quite a lot about Star Trek in Germany:

I feel the German voice actors are very well chosen. Spock's voice, Herbert Weicker, in particular -- he's IMO perfect for the character, and not very unlike Nimoy.

 

Kirk was dubbed by the "King of German voice actors", G.G. Hoffmann, who has a very warm, charming, but manly voice, and also was the standard voice for many "hero" roles between the 50s and 70s -- like Clint Eastwood, Sean Connery, Paul Newman or Kirk Douglas. Some women and a gay friend told me Kirk sounds more "sexy" in German... I guess I can confirm that insofar as I feel he's more charming, and the voice underlines his "ladyman" character.

McCoy speaks normal standard German, but they found a nice solution for Scotty's accent: In German version, Scotty speaks standard, but a very colloquial language that's almost slang. That IMO a good way to transfer his character... though he sounds perhaps a tad less grumpy, but a bit cooler in German. Chekov has a bad fake Russian accent in the German version, too. ;)

But some voices change over the course of the series: In 1972-74, only 39 more "family friendly" episodes were cherry-picked, dubbed and broadcast in Germany. When a different channel dubbed the remaining 39 episodes (all but "Patterns of Force") in 1987, not all old voice actors were still available. McCoy's and Uhura's first voice actors had died already, so they had to be replaced. But IMO, that didn't matter much, because the new voice actors were very similar to the old ones.

McCoy's second voice, Randolf Kronberg, is IMO an especially talented voice actor -- for example, he IMO achieved an almost impossible thing: Dubbing Eddie Murphy successfully. Making McCoy sound like he used to, with his first voice, was an easy exercize for him, I guess.

Here a few clips, so you get an idea about the German voices:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoqVBmNFYdk

 

If some questions remained unanswered, please let me know! :D

 

Oh, wow, thanks so much for the descriptions of TOS in German, for the pointer to the compilation of dubbed video, and for the pointer to your interesting essay; I really enjoyed all of them!

I was astonished at the quality of the dubbing.  They were really good at getting the sounds and the mouth movements to line up, such that it really looked as if the actors were speaking what we were hearing.  I guess I've only seen things that were badly dubbed before, because I've never seen anything like this!

My German isn't very good, but from what tiny bit of it I speak, I had the impression that most things take a bit longer to say in German than they do in English.  In order to get the mouth movements to line up, I'd think that would mean they'd have to speak rather quickly.  Do the actors sound rushed in German?  (Sadly, my German isn't good enough to tell whether they do or not.)

And yes, I can certainly understand having an emotional attachment to the one you grew up hearing.  Plus, one's native tongue tends to carry a lot more emotional resonance than a foreign language, no matter how well one speaks the foreign language.  Whatever language your parents spoke to you when you were small, that's the language that will engage your emotions most readily.

I think it's hilarious that Chekov's Russian accent is bad in German, too.  I don't think his accent was intentionally bad in the English version; it's just that accents weren't Mr. Koenig's strength. :giggle:

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Sim   

 

So, what do the German voices for Kirk, Spock, and McCoy sound like?  Does McCoy have a different accent, in the way that De Kelley has a Southern accent in English?  Does the German Kirk sound as impassioned as Kirk can sound during some of his stirring speeches?  Does the German Spock have Leonard Nimoy's cool-but-not-robotic delivery?  Please tell all!

 

A while back, I wrote quite a lot about Star Trek in Germany:

I feel the German voice actors are very well chosen. Spock's voice, Herbert Weicker, in particular -- he's IMO perfect for the character, and not very unlike Nimoy.

 

Kirk was dubbed by the "King of German voice actors", G.G. Hoffmann, who has a very warm, charming, but manly voice, and also was the standard voice for many "hero" roles between the 50s and 70s -- like Clint Eastwood, Sean Connery, Paul Newman or Kirk Douglas. Some women and a gay friend told me Kirk sounds more "sexy" in German... I guess I can confirm that insofar as I feel he's more charming, and the voice underlines his "ladyman" character.

McCoy speaks normal standard German, but they found a nice solution for Scotty's accent: In German version, Scotty speaks standard, but a very colloquial language that's almost slang. That IMO a good way to transfer his character... though he sounds perhaps a tad less grumpy, but a bit cooler in German. Chekov has a bad fake Russian accent in the German version, too. ;)

But some voices change over the course of the series: In 1972-74, only 39 more "family friendly" episodes were cherry-picked, dubbed and broadcast in Germany. When a different channel dubbed the remaining 39 episodes (all but "Patterns of Force") in 1987, not all old voice actors were still available. McCoy's and Uhura's first voice actors had died already, so they had to be replaced. But IMO, that didn't matter much, because the new voice actors were very similar to the old ones.

McCoy's second voice, Randolf Kronberg, is IMO an especially talented voice actor -- for example, he IMO achieved an almost impossible thing: Dubbing Eddie Murphy successfully. Making McCoy sound like he used to, with his first voice, was an easy exercize for him, I guess.

Here a few clips, so you get an idea about the German voices:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoqVBmNFYdk

 

If some questions remained unanswered, please let me know! :D

 

Oh, wow, thanks so much for the descriptions of TOS in German, for the pointer to the compilation of dubbed video, and for the pointer to your interesting essay; I really enjoyed all of them!

I was astonished at the quality of the dubbing.  They were really good at getting the sounds and the mouth movements to line up, such that it really looked as if the actors were speaking what we were hearing.  I guess I've only seen things that were badly dubbed before, because I've never seen anything like this!

My German isn't very good, but from what tiny bit of it I speak, I had the impression that most things take a bit longer to say in German than they do in English.  In order to get the mouth movements to line up, I'd think that would mean they'd have to speak rather quickly.  Do the actors sound rushed in German?  (Sadly, my German isn't good enough to tell whether they do or not.)

And yes, I can certainly understand having an emotional attachment to the one you grew up hearing.  Plus, one's native tongue tends to carry a lot more emotional resonance than a foreign language, no matter how well one speaks the foreign language.  Whatever language your parents spoke to you when you were small, that's the language that will engage your emotions most readily.

I think it's hilarious that Chekov's Russian accent is bad in German, too.  I don't think his accent was intentionally bad in the English version; it's just that accents weren't Mr. Koenig's strength. :giggle:

 

Glad you liked it! :)

Yes, technically, the dubbing is pretty good, most of the time. But IMO, many dubbings since the late 80s are a bit wooden and careless, as it had become a mass production thing. Usually, the different voice actors aren't even in the same room anymore, but record their parts seperately.

Hm, I never had the impression it feels rushed in the German version. But maybe I'm just used to it. ;)

And yes, listening to it in your native language is special, even when the translation isn't always perfect. Even though I understand most English versions (when it's not strong slang or accent), it's a bit more "stressful" watching them. It requires more concentration, but often, I prefer to relax when watching Star Trek. ;)

And I'm so used to the German TOS voices... for a while, they were all I had, because I had taped 14 TOS episodes from tv onto audio tapes, before my parents bought a VCR, and I would listen to them a lot.

Frankly, I have no idea whether Chekov's voices, Martin Umbach and Elmar Wepper, intentionally did a *bad* Russian accent, either ... but at any rate, they're not Russian native speakers.

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I was going to defend "Spectre of the Gun" as well, but Sim and Robin beat me to it (and I was too busy flying to New York today :laugh:). 
I thought the lack of budget lent the production a wonderful, surreal nightmare-quality.  Love the hanging clock in mid-air, and the disembodied head of the Melkotian.  It's downright eerie.  

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CaptPapa   

My vote for most disappointing episode goes to The Omega Glory.  I thought the Koms and Yangs thing was not very clever, but when they get to the end and the Preamble, I just wanted to put my foot through the TV.

Honorable mention goes to Plato's Stepchildren - strangely (to me) under-represented in this thread.  Let's embarrass our cast in search of higher ratings - disappointing.

ME

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Hey, like with everything in history you have to be able to put it into the proper context. (One problem I have with judging historic figures by today's standards.  Lincoln would be considered a racist today, for example, and yet he was an enlightened man for his time on slavery.)

With Omega Glory, remember this the height of the Cold War.  U.S. against communism.  Add that to the fact that Mr. Roddenberry was a WWII vet and you can understand a little flag waving.  (Which I don't think is a bad thing IF it is done intelligently.  I will never apologize for loving my country.  Warts and all.)

 

As to my most disappointing episode, I guess it would be The Enemy Within.  The original episode that uses the transporter (technology) to get the writer's out of a box they had created.  First it splits Kirk into Jekyll and Hyde then it is used to merge them.  When did personality/morality become physical traits?

Nothing wrong with loving your country, but there are fine lines. It's actually not the jingoistic qualities that bother me so much, it's that it postures as an SF idea. You think you're watching Star Trek and it all starts pretty well, but then the story veers off into a different direction and it just doesn't work as a narrative device. It feels wildly out of context. Mind you, Roddenberry would often beat his audience over the head with certain ideas - and it usually led to the worst of Star Trek (hello much of TNG S1). 

My vote for most disappointing episode goes to The Omega Glory.  I thought the Koms and Yangs thing was not very clever, but when they get to the end and the Preamble, I just wanted to put my foot through the TV.

Honorable mention goes to Plato's Stepchildren - strangely (to me) under-represented in this thread.  Let's embarrass our cast in search of higher ratings - disappointing.

ME

Plato's Stepchildren is ridiculous on so many levels, but I never find it disappointing. This is also an episode that was never shown for some reason in the UK where I grew up, but when I first saw it I couldn't honestly say I wasn't hugely entertained. 

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Hey, like with everything in history you have to be able to put it into the proper context. (One problem I have with judging historic figures by today's standards.  Lincoln would be considered a racist today, for example, and yet he was an enlightened man for his time on slavery.)

With Omega Glory, remember this the height of the Cold War.  U.S. against communism.  Add that to the fact that Mr. Roddenberry was a WWII vet and you can understand a little flag waving.  (Which I don't think is a bad thing IF it is done intelligently.  I will never apologize for loving my country.  Warts and all.)

 

As to my most disappointing episode, I guess it would be The Enemy Within.  The original episode that uses the transporter (technology) to get the writer's out of a box they had created.  First it splits Kirk into Jekyll and Hyde then it is used to merge them.  When did personality/morality become physical traits?

Nothing wrong with loving your country, but there are fine lines. It's actually not the jingoistic qualities that bother me so much, it's that it postures as an SF idea. You think you're watching Star Trek and it all starts pretty well, but then the story veers off into a different direction and it just doesn't work as a narrative device. It feels wildly out of context. Mind you, Roddenberry would often beat his audience over the head with certain ideas - and it usually led to the worst of Star Trek (hello much of TNG S1). 

My vote for most disappointing episode goes to The Omega Glory.  I thought the Koms and Yangs thing was not very clever, but when they get to the end and the Preamble, I just wanted to put my foot through the TV.

Honorable mention goes to Plato's Stepchildren - strangely (to me) under-represented in this thread.  Let's embarrass our cast in search of higher ratings - disappointing.

ME

Plato's Stepchildren is ridiculous on so many levels, but I never find it disappointing. This is also an episode that was never shown for some reason in the UK where I grew up, but when I first saw it I couldn't honestly say I wasn't hugely entertained. 

Plato's Stepchildren... it's one of those 'so-bad-it's-good' episodes; like a weird collision of Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" with Scott Baio's "Zapped!"  

Really awful in that it has no real story or 'moral' per se; other than 'wouldn't it be fun to humiliate the Enterprise crew over and over again?'  And yet... it's not entirely unwatchable either.   It's the car accident on the highway; can't look at it, can't look away.  I'm not sure if I was disappointed only because even from the teaser, it never looked very good... even when I first saw it.

And it ends with a short joke... really?  Oy vey.

 

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So Im rewatching TOS, so I cant say this is the MOST disappointing overall, but it is of the first half of season one: What are Little Girls Made of. 

In short: if the mad scientist who turned himself into an android realized in the climax that it was all a horrible mistake, and then killed himself, that would be tragic. It would have made for a deep, well written and very Trekkian Star Trek episode. But because of time limits and hectic rewrites, the death was written as an accident. They realized that sucked, so they reshot the ending with stand ins, but because there was no explanation it still fell flat.     

I explain more in my pod about this ep: What Are Little Girls Made Of?

 

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3 hours ago, Justin Snead said:

So Im rewatching TOS, so I cant say this is the MOST disappointing overall, but it is of the first half of season one: What are Little Girls Made of. 

In short: if the mad scientist who turned himself into an android realized in the climax that it was all a horrible mistake, and then killed himself, that would be tragic. It would have made for a deep, well written and very Trekkian Star Trek episode. But because of time limits and hectic rewrites, the death was written as an accident. They realized that sucked, so they reshot the ending with stand ins, but because there was no explanation it still fell flat.     

I explain more in my pod about this ep: What Are Little Girls Made Of?

 

I don’t recall it being an accident; Corby destroyed himself and Andrea deliberately.  He purposefully pulled the trigger.  Just saying...

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13 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I don’t recall it being an accident; Corby destroyed himself and Andrea deliberately.  He purposefully pulled the trigger.  Just saying...

This.

Play the scene. He specifically and deliberately places his hands around hers and depresses the trigger.

47:37 on the clock. No accident. 

Edited by prometheus59650

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39 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

This.

Play the scene. He specifically and deliberately places his hands around hers and depresses the trigger.

47:37 on the clock. No accident. 

The way I saw it, Corby realized that what Kirk and Chapel said about his losing his humanity was true, and the folly of his plan to replace humans with androids hit him in that moment.  He might’ve also viewed Andrea’s ‘loving’ him as some sort of programming aberration that had to be ‘put down.’   At least that was my take on it.  

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12 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

The way I saw it, Corby realized that what Kirk and Chapel said about his losing his humanity was true, and the folly of his plan to replace humans with androids hit him in that moment.  He might’ve also viewed Andrea’s ‘loving’ him as some sort of programming aberration that had to be ‘put down.’   At least that was my take on it.  

I agree. The realization that came with his, "Ask me to solve any equa..." moment was that he was more machine than man. He was missing something now and all this had to end.

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I think my least favorite has to be "Plato's Stepchildren," although it's mostly due to the scene with Kirk being forced to act and whinny like a horse with the dwarf Alexander riding him. I wonder who did the whinnying because it sure as heck did NOT sound like Shatner was doing it.

Though I think the worst of the lot had to be "The Way To Eden." As James Doohan said and I quote - "because it was nothing!" - this was his least favorite, and I can't blame him.

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24 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

I think my least favorite has to be "Plato's Stepchildren," although it's mostly due to the scene with Kirk being forced to act and whinny like a horse with the dwarf Alexander riding him. I wonder who did the whinnying because it sure as heck did NOT sound like Shatner was doing it.

Though I think the worst of the lot had to be "The Way To Eden." As James Doohan said and I quote - "because it was nothing!" - this was his least favorite, and I can't blame him.

Sad thing is that there IS a seed of a story there and you see it when Spock talks about how there are people who chafe against the sterile, carefully planned and maintained world that their society created, but it comes to nothing..

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C.Lovett   

"The Apple" good lord what were these writers smoking!?? (I don't think I have to go into detail why this episode was a letdown)

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On 7/18/2017 at 2:48 PM, C.Lovett said:

"The Apple" good lord what were these writers smoking!?? (I don't think I have to go into detail why this episode was a letdown)

I agree, that one was a stinker. Not to mention it did raise some moral qualms on what Kirk did in that one - furthermore it rehashed some elements from "Who Mourns for Adonais." That's always been a sore thumb. "The Omega Glory" is also regarded as a stinker too.

"The Mark of Gideon" - part of the premise did seem feasible, but what many can't get around - and I agree - is how they were able to create a facsimile of the Enterprise on the planet's surface. And you'd think that race advanced enough would have solved their own population problem.

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37 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

I agree, that one was a stinker. Not to mention it did raise some moral qualms on what Kirk did in that one - furthermore it rehashed some elements from "Who Mourns for Adonais." That's always been a sore thumb. "The Omega Glory" is also regarded as a stinker too.

"The Mark of Gideon" - part of the premise did seem feasible, but what many can't get around - and I agree - is how they were able to create a facsimile of the Enterprise on the planet's surface. And you'd think that race advanced enough would have solved their own population problem.

A lot of it is infeasible.If there's not even room to stand on this planet, what about food. Or waste, human or otherwise.

And a race with apparently no natural immunity to anything is going to introduce a virus into the population. What could go wrong?

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7 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

A lot of it is infeasible.If there's not even room to stand on this planet, what about food. Or waste, human or otherwise.

And a race with apparently no natural immunity to anything is going to introduce a virus into the population. What could go wrong?

There's a tremendous contradiction in TMOG; this species claims that their reason for overpopulation is that all life is too precious, and that they can't use birth control, etc. I get it; life is too precious, hence overpopulation.  But...if life is so precious that things like abortion and birth control are unthinkable, WHO came up with the plan to reintroduce fatal disease back into the population??

Murder by biological warfare (whatever the motivation) would still be mass murder; surely THAT is unthinkable for a planet where life is too precious to even consider birth control, right?   Not trying to KM the topic, but it demonstrates a clear violation of the writers' own intent.

And yes, the 'fitting a 1:1 replica of a starship on a planet where people can't even take a dump in private' thing never made any sense to me either; even when I was little.   If they had the technology to mass produce an Enterprise replica so quickly (based on long range scans, no less!) surely they had the technology to build massive space stations and off-world colonies to deal with their insane population growth. 

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4 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

There's a tremendous contradiction in TMOG; this species claims that their reason for overpopulation is that all life is too precious, and that they can't use birth control, etc. I get it; life is too precious, hence overpopulation.  But...if life is so precious that things like abortion and birth control are unthinkable, WHO came up with the plan to reintroduce fatal disease back into the population??

Murder by biological warfare (whatever the motivation) would still be mass murder; surely THAT is unthinkable for a planet where life is too precious to even consider birth control, right?   Not trying to KM the topic, but it demonstrates a clear violation of the writers' own intent.

And yes, the 'fitting a 1:1 replica of a starship on a planet where people can't even take a dump in private' thing never made any sense to me either; even when I was little.   If they had the technology to mass produce an Enterprise replica so quickly (based on long range scans, no less!) surely they had the technology to build massive space stations and off-world colonies to deal with their insane population growth. 

Now, see, I always inferred from Kirk's opening log that the Enterprise schematics were somehow part of the Federation information sharing. But, either way, it's its own slew of problems.

Yes, I never understood why they never just....left. Space station? Colony? Whatever.

 

But the fact is that this would never be a problem to the extent that the episode portrayed. With completely unchecked birth rates you're actually going to eventually crash  the planet's biosphere.

Mother nature, sooner or later, one way or another, will solve your population problem for you.

Edited by prometheus59650

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22 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

Now, see, I always inferred from Kirk's opening log that the Enterprise schematics were somehow part of the Federation information sharing. But, either way, it's its own slew of problems.

Yes, I never understood why they never just....left. Space station? Colony? Whatever.

 

But the fact is that this would never be a problem to the extent that the episode portrayed. With completely unchecked birth rates you're actually going to eventually crash  the planet's biosphere.

Mother nature, sooner or later, one way or another, will solve your population problem for you.

I'm also guessing no one in the writer's circle foresaw nature's ability to adapt; when there is super-immunity, there are super-strains of opportunistic infections that rise to the challenge.   

And yes, maybe you're right about the Gideon inhabitants getting ahold of the schematics, etc. I haven't see MoG in years, so I may be remembering that part of it wrong.  But either way, the idea of a planet with ZERO personal space having room to house a starship replica?  Yeah, I cry B/S on that, too.

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Old post, yes. Zapped! came out in the 1980s. If anything, Plato's Stepchildren, 1967, inspired the film.

Omega Glory was silly and ham fisted in the end. If only they had explained somewhere that the crazy captain told the natives about US culture and they were just following his instructions, it would have kind of made sense.

I think for me the most disappointing episode of TOS was "Turnabout Intruder" because there were not more until the animated show, (as I was still very little when the animated show was on), and the first movie was years away, when I was 9, and fell asleep during. I've seen them all since but yeah, the last episode is the most, not because it was kind of hammy also, it was the last one.

Since reruns started when I was a kid, first impressions of them having a point and message did not occur to me yet. Figured from later repeat showings, I got all those tropes. You wanted first impressions.

(As an adult on repeat viewings)...I tend to agree with Turnabout Intruder (being a disappointment), although there was as stereotype in the 1950s through the 1980s about women serving on ships, for some ridiculous reason. In an enlightened future, all serve on ships. It think the woman was just unstable and 'she was not allowed' whereas other women could serve. (Captains even).

And the Children shall Lead. I liked it only because I discovered classic Trek as a child, in reruns, and wanted to be taking over the ship, which is common in my Trek fan fiction.

Ah, the James Blish adaptations were fun! I liked his version of Alternative Factor. It made more sense then the one being 'antimatter' because he would not be able to contact matter. He would then be in a time loop. 

The hippie episode was so obvious that even the late James Doohan said it was a nothing story.

Making a reference to Herb Solow in the episode is like naming a shuttle the Rick Berman. The studio guys get it, but that means somehiw Hert Solow and Rick Berman are remembered centuries later in space. That makes it kind of silly. 

Kirk has a habit of crushing Gods and super advanced computers acting as false Gods. Sure he can't really do that, but it's not a let down.

About Spock using Kirk's flirting techniques as a 'deception to gain formation', he likely would not. I suspect his human half merely over rode his emotional control, as she was very pretty, and he was just getting in the groove with those people on the planet. It was kind of out of character. 

Space hippies and their paradise turning into a dangerous world is a common scifi trope on its own. It was even used in an animatewd episode of Voltron, where they go to a planet that looks perfect, and it turns out it's deadly. It's the red shirt planet expanded into all the red shirts get it.

Edited by Chimera82405

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