GustavoLeao

How Paramount Will Destroy BEYOND Worldwide

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Nope, some of the best TOS (THE MOTION PICTURE, THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK) and TNG movies (GENERATIONS) are cerebral Trek about ideas and philosophy. Jar Jar is on the wrong franchise.

Or so I think. But whjat did I know ? I am  just a brazilian old country farmboy.

Gus

Edited by GustavoLeao

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Nope, some of the best TOS (THE MOTION PICTURE, THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK) and TNG movies (GENERATIONS) are cerebral Trek about ideas and philosophy. Jar Jar is on the wrong franchise.

Or so I think. But whjat did I know ? I am  just a brazilian old country farmboy.

Gus

The Motion Picture was great science fiction, but was painfully slow, even for 1979. There is no way it would work today. Search for Spock had the characters looking to find their buddy, but the rest of the film was FULL of special effects, explosions and fighting. Why is that film allowed to do this, but the new films aren't? As for the TNG films, they benefited from being based on characters that had done 178 episodes of television. In 7 years, we've only seen 6 hours of the new Kirk, Spock and friends.

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I think we can all agree that the only reason those movies worked out was because they told stories about characters that ware introduced during a television show. TV Trek is what holds Trek alive. We have to admit, if TMP, SFP, GEN, or any other ST movies was released separatedly, they would be pretty bad, boring and not at all entertaining. The soul of Star Trek is on it's characters, not on it's story ( unlike SW ). You need to know the characters, you need to connect to them, without that the movies are empty.

GEN only hits the feels because you can see the evolution of Data, you feel for the character as he can't control  his emotions, or how deeply Picard was connected to his family, how he dreamed about having a family of his own... That was all very explored in the show.  TMP works because it was about friendship and exploration, with a crew of familiar faces that appeared together on a movie adventure for the first time ever. If they ware just "Steve", "Joe" and "Douglas", the new heroes starfleet just created and that ware never before mentioned or shown, the move gets empty, it losts it's soul. 

NU Trek is attempting to hold it's ground without that privilege, and I think it's doing a damn fina job at that. 

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There is no point in discussing or comparing the old movies with the JJ TREK movies at this point.

And to tell the truth, I ran out of gas about discussing the current STAR TREK. Sad, but true.

 

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Old Trek films would not work in today's market....fast action is the current in thing.

However a story that does not involve a mad villain would help, something like Star Trek 4 

^
On the nose.

I believe it's still possible to do a faster paced action-y version of Trek but with more the heart and substance of the earlier films.    Seems to me that Star Trek Beyond was finally achieving that sort of balance.   It was the first of the Bad Robot films to actually feel like a genuine Star Trek movie to me; I'm not knocking ST09 (STID is another subject), but ST09 was more of a primer for non-ST fans (as it had to be) than a genuine working-on-all-thrusters ST movie; it was an origins story, which it was obligated to be at that stage.   

I would love to see a new ST movie be something more of an analogy to a current world crises (maybe an allegory for climate change?) without the crutch of a black hat heavy. That would be a really neat trick.   One area that most of the ST movies have stumbled on IMO is that of villainy; basically, we've been treated to the 'mad man with a big bomb' bad guy for most of the ST movie canon, with few notable exceptions.  It'd be really nice to see that change soon. 

Each new ST movie has promised a bad guy with strong motivation and a new perspective, blah, blah, blah.   But with each new outing, we just see some reshuffled variation of Khan and the Genesis device.   The black hat is really OLD hat now... 

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STAR TREK BEYOND Lukewarm at the Box Office
 
This new detailed TrekMovie.com article examines the near-final numbers for Beyond, seeks to answer the question why this happened, and analyzes what this could mean for the future of the Kelvin Timeline on the big screen.
 

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STAR TREK BEYOND Lukewarm at the Box Office
 
This new detailed TrekMovie.com article examines the near-final numbers for Beyond, seeks to answer the question why this happened, and analyzes what this could mean for the future of the Kelvin Timeline on the big screen.
 

I agree with most everything here, except for the 4th idea:

 

  1. Schedule Star Trek 4 for a late 2018 release date, and disavow yourselves of the notion that Star Trek is a Summer tentpole franchise that needs a $150 million-plus budget to draw an audience.
  2. Produce the film for $100-120 million. Some of the most enjoyable moments in Beyond were the interplay between our crew. Star Trek has always been about characters, not action set pieces.
  3. Give the job of writing the film to experienced screenwriters who thrive under tight deadlines. With all due respect to Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne, neither have a released film to their name. If the Kelvin Timeline is to continue past a fourth film, more seasoned writers will be needed to minimize rewrites and ensure the script is delivered on time.
  4. Hire a director who will prioritize story and drama over Star Trek. Some of the best films in the franchise have been made when writers and directors come up with interesting story ideas, and then use Star Trek to tell them. The beauty of Star Trek, and the science fiction genre, is that it can be used to tell nearly any story one can imagine.
  5. Be daring. The cast, now with three films under their belt, will think they know how their characters would act in every situation. Do not allow their hubris to interfere with telling a good story.

I think Lin's direction wasn't the issue; this is yet another occasion where the director is mistakenly blamed for the errors of the screenplay.  The direction of STB was smooth and the character interaction was the best I've yet seen in the Bad Robot movies.

But everything else suggested in the article are things we've all discussed here at length in these threads; smaller budget, more intimate focus, Christmas release, etc.   And yes, maybe a more seasoned screenwriter to assist as well; one who places a higher premium on genuine substance over too many loud, hollow action set-pieces.    More "Voyage Home" than "Into Darkness." 

Oh, and a worldwide near-simultaneous release too.  No more of this staggered releasing over two months bulls#!t. 

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kenman   
STAR TREK BEYOND Lukewarm at the Box Office
 
This new detailed TrekMovie.com article examines the near-final numbers for Beyond, seeks to answer the question why this happened, and analyzes what this could mean for the future of the Kelvin Timeline on the big screen.
 

I agree with most everything here, except for the 4th idea:

 

  1. Schedule Star Trek 4 for a late 2018 release date, and disavow yourselves of the notion that Star Trek is a Summer tentpole franchise that needs a $150 million-plus budget to draw an audience.
  2. Produce the film for $100-120 million. Some of the most enjoyable moments in Beyond were the interplay between our crew. Star Trek has always been about characters, not action set pieces.
  3. Give the job of writing the film to experienced screenwriters who thrive under tight deadlines. With all due respect to Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne, neither have a released film to their name. If the Kelvin Timeline is to continue past a fourth film, more seasoned writers will be needed to minimize rewrites and ensure the script is delivered on time.
  4. Hire a director who will prioritize story and drama over Star Trek. Some of the best films in the franchise have been made when writers and directors come up with interesting story ideas, and then use Star Trek to tell them. The beauty of Star Trek, and the science fiction genre, is that it can be used to tell nearly any story one can imagine.
  5. Be daring. The cast, now with three films under their belt, will think they know how their characters would act in every situation. Do not allow their hubris to interfere with telling a good story.

I think Lin's direction wasn't the issue; this is yet another occasion where the director is mistakenly blamed for the errors of the screenplay.  The direction of STB was smooth and the character interaction was the best I've yet seen in the Bad Robot movies.

But everything else suggested in the article are things we've all discussed here at length in these threads; smaller budget, more intimate focus, Christmas release, etc.   And yes, maybe a more seasoned screenwriter to assist as well; one who places a higher premium on genuine substance over too many loud, hollow action set-pieces.    More "Voyage Home" than "Into Darkness." 

Oh, and a worldwide near-simultaneous release too.  No more of this staggered releasing over two months bulls#!t. 

They still haven't released in Japan, so more than two months!

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STAR TREK BEYOND Lukewarm at the Box Office
 
This new detailed TrekMovie.com article examines the near-final numbers for Beyond, seeks to answer the question why this happened, and analyzes what this could mean for the future of the Kelvin Timeline on the big screen.
 

I agree with most everything here, except for the 4th idea:

 

  1. Schedule Star Trek 4 for a late 2018 release date, and disavow yourselves of the notion that Star Trek is a Summer tentpole franchise that needs a $150 million-plus budget to draw an audience.
  2. Produce the film for $100-120 million. Some of the most enjoyable moments in Beyond were the interplay between our crew. Star Trek has always been about characters, not action set pieces.
  3. Give the job of writing the film to experienced screenwriters who thrive under tight deadlines. With all due respect to Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne, neither have a released film to their name. If the Kelvin Timeline is to continue past a fourth film, more seasoned writers will be needed to minimize rewrites and ensure the script is delivered on time.
  4. Hire a director who will prioritize story and drama over Star Trek. Some of the best films in the franchise have been made when writers and directors come up with interesting story ideas, and then use Star Trek to tell them. The beauty of Star Trek, and the science fiction genre, is that it can be used to tell nearly any story one can imagine.
  5. Be daring. The cast, now with three films under their belt, will think they know how their characters would act in every situation. Do not allow their hubris to interfere with telling a good story.

I think Lin's direction wasn't the issue; this is yet another occasion where the director is mistakenly blamed for the errors of the screenplay.  The direction of STB was smooth and the character interaction was the best I've yet seen in the Bad Robot movies.

But everything else suggested in the article are things we've all discussed here at length in these threads; smaller budget, more intimate focus, Christmas release, etc.   And yes, maybe a more seasoned screenwriter to assist as well; one who places a higher premium on genuine substance over too many loud, hollow action set-pieces.    More "Voyage Home" than "Into Darkness." 

Oh, and a worldwide near-simultaneous release too.  No more of this staggered releasing over two months bulls#!t. 

They still haven't released in Japan, so more than two months!

Really?  Not yet?
Wow... I didn't know that.   What the hell?

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kenman   
STAR TREK BEYOND Lukewarm at the Box Office
 
This new detailed TrekMovie.com article examines the near-final numbers for Beyond, seeks to answer the question why this happened, and analyzes what this could mean for the future of the Kelvin Timeline on the big screen.
 

I agree with most everything here, except for the 4th idea:

 

  1. Schedule Star Trek 4 for a late 2018 release date, and disavow yourselves of the notion that Star Trek is a Summer tentpole franchise that needs a $150 million-plus budget to draw an audience.
  2. Produce the film for $100-120 million. Some of the most enjoyable moments in Beyond were the interplay between our crew. Star Trek has always been about characters, not action set pieces.
  3. Give the job of writing the film to experienced screenwriters who thrive under tight deadlines. With all due respect to Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne, neither have a released film to their name. If the Kelvin Timeline is to continue past a fourth film, more seasoned writers will be needed to minimize rewrites and ensure the script is delivered on time.
  4. Hire a director who will prioritize story and drama over Star Trek. Some of the best films in the franchise have been made when writers and directors come up with interesting story ideas, and then use Star Trek to tell them. The beauty of Star Trek, and the science fiction genre, is that it can be used to tell nearly any story one can imagine.
  5. Be daring. The cast, now with three films under their belt, will think they know how their characters would act in every situation. Do not allow their hubris to interfere with telling a good story.

I think Lin's direction wasn't the issue; this is yet another occasion where the director is mistakenly blamed for the errors of the screenplay.  The direction of STB was smooth and the character interaction was the best I've yet seen in the Bad Robot movies.

But everything else suggested in the article are things we've all discussed here at length in these threads; smaller budget, more intimate focus, Christmas release, etc.   And yes, maybe a more seasoned screenwriter to assist as well; one who places a higher premium on genuine substance over too many loud, hollow action set-pieces.    More "Voyage Home" than "Into Darkness." 

Oh, and a worldwide near-simultaneous release too.  No more of this staggered releasing over two months bulls#!t. 

They still haven't released in Japan, so more than two months!

Really?  Not yet?
Wow... I didn't know that.   What the hell?

I think Japan is October 21st for some ungodly reason.

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STAR TREK BEYOND Lukewarm at the Box Office
 
This new detailed TrekMovie.com article examines the near-final numbers for Beyond, seeks to answer the question why this happened, and analyzes what this could mean for the future of the Kelvin Timeline on the big screen.
 

I agree with most everything here, except for the 4th idea:

 

  1. Schedule Star Trek 4 for a late 2018 release date, and disavow yourselves of the notion that Star Trek is a Summer tentpole franchise that needs a $150 million-plus budget to draw an audience.
  2. Produce the film for $100-120 million. Some of the most enjoyable moments in Beyond were the interplay between our crew. Star Trek has always been about characters, not action set pieces.
  3. Give the job of writing the film to experienced screenwriters who thrive under tight deadlines. With all due respect to Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne, neither have a released film to their name. If the Kelvin Timeline is to continue past a fourth film, more seasoned writers will be needed to minimize rewrites and ensure the script is delivered on time.
  4. Hire a director who will prioritize story and drama over Star Trek. Some of the best films in the franchise have been made when writers and directors come up with interesting story ideas, and then use Star Trek to tell them. The beauty of Star Trek, and the science fiction genre, is that it can be used to tell nearly any story one can imagine.
  5. Be daring. The cast, now with three films under their belt, will think they know how their characters would act in every situation. Do not allow their hubris to interfere with telling a good story.

I think Lin's direction wasn't the issue; this is yet another occasion where the director is mistakenly blamed for the errors of the screenplay.  The direction of STB was smooth and the character interaction was the best I've yet seen in the Bad Robot movies.

But everything else suggested in the article are things we've all discussed here at length in these threads; smaller budget, more intimate focus, Christmas release, etc.   And yes, maybe a more seasoned screenwriter to assist as well; one who places a higher premium on genuine substance over too many loud, hollow action set-pieces.    More "Voyage Home" than "Into Darkness." 

Oh, and a worldwide near-simultaneous release too.  No more of this staggered releasing over two months bulls#!t. 

They still haven't released in Japan, so more than two months!

Really?  Not yet?
Wow... I didn't know that.   What the hell?

I think Japan is October 21st for some ungodly reason.

Yeah, because Star Trek just screams pumpkin spice... :laugh:

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star-trek-beyond-clip-scotty-meets-jayla

G...g...g....g....ghost!!!!

Actually, she kind of DOES have a slight suggestion of J-horror with her white skin... :P

The-grudge.jpg

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kenman   

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-box-office-number-crunching/

Not technically about Star Trek (in fact that practically gloss over it) but a pretty solid breakdown of Hollywood's numbers this year and how things maybe weren't as unsuccessful as they seem...but it made me think of this thread so I thought I'd throw it here. 

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More "Voyage Home" than "Into Darkness."

Yeah, but Into Darkness is what sells. The reason Voyage Home worked so well was because it was the resolution of a trilogy that featured actors who had been together for 20 years in a humorous yet poignant situation. You can't just apply that formula to the current cast because they were developed under completely different circumstances. What fans want and what worldwide mainstream audiences are willing to sit through are almost always two different things.

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More "Voyage Home" than "Into Darkness."

Yeah, but Into Darkness is what sells. The reason Voyage Home worked so well was because it was the resolution of a trilogy that featured actors who had been together for 20 years in a humorous yet poignant situation. You can't just apply that formula to the current cast because they were developed under completely different circumstances. What fans want and what worldwide mainstream audiences are willing to sit through are almost always two different things.

^
I don't buy that.

A lot of people I know came aboard the Star Trek movie franchise for the first time with "The Voyage Home."  It wasn't successful because it was the end of a trilogy (since when do trilogy resolutions outdo their immediate two predecessors?); it was because it was a solid movie independent of the previous three.   

A good story is a good story; and until ST09, TVH was the most successful of the ST movies.  And it had nothing to do with it being the capper to TWOK and TSFS.   STID was a scattershot mess that was largely buoyed by ST09 (which it borrows much from) and IMAX showings (which automatically upped it's take from the previous movie).   

STID isn't what 'audiences want' necessarily; yes, the box office was good, but the budget was higher as well.   Yes, it's a fiscal success; so are Transformers movies.  Both can still be bad...

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