GustavoLeao

How Paramount Will Destroy BEYOND Worldwide

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Do you know how Paramount Pictures willl destroy STAR TREK BEYOND at the international box office ?

I just got back from a market here in my city, Belo Horizonte, with a DVD copy of CAPTAIN AMERICA CIVIL WAR, bootleg of course, Great quality of image and sound, Portuguse subtitles and in widescreen (classy !). Thats movie piracy in Brazil for you.

Paramount will be releasing BEYOND in Latin America and some European countries like Portugal and Norway more than a month after the US release, which means DVD pirates will do anything to make money and have the movie recorded in their bootlegs DVDs BEFORE it will premiere in their countries, specially in Brazil and Mexico, when piracy is a huge bussiness.

Which means a lot of people wil see the movie at home, not on the big screen and we have only Paramount to thank for that. And since nobody in their right mind (with the exception of a few fans) will wait for the movie reach their local cinemas, the movie will BOMB in Latin America and Europe, even Russia. This will make BEYOYND doing bad bussiness worldwide and worldwide market just saved X-MEN APOCALYPSE. Touche.

Here is a pic of my brazilian )nog bootleg) DVD of CAPTAIN AMERICA CIVIL WAR, but since it has no extras I will just relax and wait for the OFFICIAL Blu-Ray.

13323341_10209614881788056_6722257644902

Gus

Edited by GustavoLeao

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I agree that Paramount shot themselves in the foot with STB's opening, but buying the pirated copy of another movie to make a point still helps the video pirates in the process... just saying. :)

 

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Well, I have to prove to you guys how easy it was for me (or any MARVEL and Captain America fan in Brazil) to get a copy of  a movie that opened just a month ago. And I bought the DVD because....well.........I have to check image, sound and subtitles. The image is perfect, the sound is perfect and the guy who hacked the movie and subtitled it even signed his "name" in subtitles at the end of the movie during the Aunt May scene. He also added "Curta nossa pagina" ("Like our page") or something like that;

The thing is, comic book geeks, moviegoers and a lot of people can have the movie in excellent quality on home right now. Good thing CAPTAIN AMERICA CIVIL WAR didnt take a month and a half to reach Brazil, but this piracy will have its impact on how the OFFICIAL release of CIVIL WAR on DVD and Blu-Ray here in Brazil. Bad bussiness for Disney and Paramount Brazil, yes, but my point is BEYOND will be even worse taking more than a month to arrive here in September 01. It will bomb in Brazil because STAR TREK is right now not popular enough in Brazil and Argentina, two huge markets which put a lot of money in X-MEN APOCALYPSE the last two weeks and helped the movie a lot internationally.

This will not happen with BEYOND because the movie will arrive here on Bootlegs weeks before its premiere - some fans I know will buy the bootleg DVD and will watch the movie on the big screen, but these are just a few fans. Brazilian fans are very angry at Paramount and a lot of people is talking about boycotting the movie if Paramount does not return the premiere date to July 22, as was expected by the brazilian fandom. JJ TREK fans are very upset with Paramount Brazil and so forth.

Gus

UPDATE - People are telling me on Facebook that good quality torrents of CAPTAIN AMERICA CIVIL WAR can be found online in various ameriican torrents sites in English with chinese subtitles and breaking bootlegs download records. Thats new to me, I thought piracy was a Latin America problem only. JUst remember - piracy is not a victimless crime, folks.

Edited by GustavoLeao

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Well, I have to prove to you guys how easy it was for me (or any MARVEL and Captain America fan in Brazil) to get a copy of  a movie that opened just a month ago. And I bought the DVD because....well.........I have to check image, sound and subtitles. The image is perfect, the sound is perfect and the guy who hacked the movie and subtitled it even signed his "name" in subtitles at the end of the movie during the Aunt May scene. He also added "Curta nossa pagina" ("Like our page") or something like that;

The thing is, comic book geeks, moviegoers and a lot of people can have the movie in excellent quality on home right now. Good thing CAPTAIN AMERICA CIVIL WAR didnt take a month and a half to reach Brazil, but this piracy will have its impact on how the OFFICIAL release of CIVIL WAR on DVD and Blu-Ray here in Brazil. Bad bussiness for Disney and Paramount Brazil, yes, but my point is BEYOND will be even worse taking more than a month to arrive here in September 01. It will bomb in Brazil because STAR TREK is right now not popular enough in Brazil and Argentina, two huge markets which put a lot of money in X-MEN APOCALYPSE the last two weeks and helped the movie a lot internationally.

This will not happen with BEYOND because the movie will arrive here on Bootlegs weeks before its premiere - some fans I know will buy the bootleg DVD and will watch the movie on the big screen, but these are just a few fans. Brazilian fans are very angry at Paramount and a lot of people is talking about boycotting the movie if Paramount does not return the premiere date to July 22, as was expected by the brazilian fandom. JJ TREK fans are very upset with Paramount Brazil and so forth.

Gus

UPDATE - People are telling me on Facebook that good quality torrents of CAPTAIN AMERICA CIVIL WAR can be found online in various ameriican torrents sites in English with chinese subtitles and breaking bootlegs download records. Thats new to me, I thought piracy was a Latin America problem only. JUst remember - piracy is not a victimless crime, folks.

All the more reason not to buy them; even to make a point. ;)

I was part of a small (struggling) business that went under largely because of streaming and piracy, so yeah; it's kind of a personal issue to me as well.   We even had a bootleg company steal our company name (they reversed the order of words in our company title and caused a LOT of customer confusion).   Granted, the market for DVDs and blu rays isn't what it was 6 years ago, but illegal torrent/streaming is the Netflix-era equivalent to bootlegging and is still theft; no matter how you slice it.  

And piracy is not just in Latin America, but it's also huge in the Asian market as well.   Even in Little Tokyo in downtown Los Angeles, it is ridiculously easy to get ahold of Chinese bootleg DVDs of movies; many of which are still in their early theatrical runs.

Yes, sometimes waiting for the legal copy is patience-taxing, but you wouldn't steal a car just because you were in a hurry to get to the airport, right? 

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I am sorry, I am not defending piracy in any way or rooting for BEYOND to fail, and you are quite right, I could have tested the quality of the bootleg DVD at the store, no need to buy it, so I apologize,

But the fact remains that Paramount did a very wrong choice in waiting tll late August or September 1st to release the movie in Latin America, most of Europe and even Russia because thats are the biggest piracy markets on the planet. Specially Brazil, Mexico and Russia. Go figure.

Again, my apologies. I am leaving the DVD of CAPTAIN AMERICA CIVIL WAR in my trash bag and saying goodbye to it, if anyone care to know, I will not be watching it,

Best wishes,

Gus

Edited by GustavoLeao

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I am sorry, I am not defending piracy in any way or rooting for BEYOND to fail, and you are quite right, I could have tested the quality of the bootleg DVD at the store, no need to buy it, so I apologize,

But the fact remains that Paramount did a very wrong choice in waiting tll late August or September 1st to release the movie in Latin America, most of Europe and even Russia because thats are the biggest piracy markets on the planet. Specially Brazil, Mexico and Russia. Go figure.

Again, my apologies. I am leaving the DVD of CAPTAIN AMERICA CIVIL WAR in my trash bag and saying goodbye to it, if anyone care to know, I will not be watching it,

Best wishes,

Gus

Good for you.   Bootlegs are little more than stolen property, IMO.

And yes, I fully agree that Paramount is making a grave mistake with ST Beyond.   Why it's not getting a worldwide simultaneous release is just beyond me.   Maybe they had to work the premieres around the availabilities of the actors for promotional purposes (?).   Just a guess (it's a lame guess, but nothing else makes sense).   Any way you cut it, it's a bad decision and it only plays right into the hands of the video pirates. 

Funny thing about "Civil War"... didn't Brazil get it a week earlier than the United States?   So I'd argue that, in that case, release date wasn't a factor in the piracy.

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Well, I know for  a fact that Justin Lin or any of the BEYOND actors will not be coming to Brazil for the premiere of the movie in September.

Yep, CIVIL WAR opened in Latin America and other countries a week earlier. I guess you are right, it wasnt a factor in this particular event.

What I know is that piracy in really "big" here in Brazil.

I always take a look at that store when I go shopping and new DVD bootlegs are always  there, not even hidden, and they are always of recent released movies, although the good quality of CIVIL WAR kinda surprised, because I saw bootlegs in the past (I admit) and they always looked like someone made  a bad VHS transfer to DVD-R. Well, I guess now the game is different in the digital age,

Gus

Edited by GustavoLeao

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Well, I know for  a fact that Justin Lin or any of the BEYOND actors will not be coming to Brazil for the premiere of the movie in September.

Yep, CIVIL WAR opened in Latin America and other countriesa week earlier. I guessyou are right, it wasnt a factor, but in this particular event.

What I know is that piracy in really "big" here in Brazil. I always take a look at that store when I go shopping and DVD bootlegs are there, not even hidden, and they are always of recent release movies, altough the good quality of CIVIL WAR kinda surprised, because I saw bootlegs in the past and they look like someone made  a bad VHS transfer to DVD-R. Well, I guess now the game is different in the digital age,

Gus

With the advent of digital projection in theatres (which is now the standard in US theatrical viewings), I imagine the video files of the movie are simply transferred (via a bought-off projectionist) directly to a new hard drive for pirating.   If one wants to make a dent piracy?  I say look very carefully into the theatre projectionists; in most cases they're not paid a decent livable wage, and that creates an easy target for pirates to take advantage of them. 

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Hmmmmm.....makes sense.

I just did a search online and China and Malaysia are the highest piracy countries. Their stuff is even for sale on eBay (?????)

Which would explain people telling me on Facebook that US torrents sites have CAPTAIN AMERICA CIVIL WAR online with chinese subtitles.

A shame.

Gus

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Hmmmmm.....makes sense.

I just did a search online and China and Malaysia are the highest piracy countries. Their stuff is even for sale on eBay (?????)

Which would explain people telling me on Facebook that US torrents sites have CAPTAIN AMERICA CIVIL WAR online with chinese subtitles.

A shame.

Gus

I used to work for a DVD retailer/manufacturing company, so yeah; we saw it firsthand.   Sometimes the Asian dupes were so good you could barely tell the legal from the illegal.  

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Sim   

Have to admit, when I was 17, I was a bootlegger, too.

The Internet was just new, I downloaded bootlegs of "Nirvana" live concerts, burned them on CD, printed covers for them and sold them online. Gave me a couple of hundred Deutschmarks per month, back then ... in a time when CD writers were rare, when nobody cared for copyright on the internet.

I told myself it was a victimless crime, because I exclusively limited myself to recordings that were never officially released -- fans could not buy an original. It was either bootleg, or no record at all.

For various reasons, I wouldn't do that anymore today, though... :P

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Hmmmmm.....makes sense.

I just did a search online and China and Malaysia are the highest piracy countries. Their stuff is even for sale on eBay (?????)

Which would explain people telling me on Facebook that US torrents sites have CAPTAIN AMERICA CIVIL WAR online with chinese subtitles.

A shame.

Gus

I used to work for a DVD retailer/manufacturing company, so yeah; we saw it firsthand.   Sometimes the Asian dupes were so good you could barely tell the legal from the illegal.  

This is one of the biggest problems. If the bootlegs were still %^$#, there's that much more incentive to buy the real thing.

Not so anymore.

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I was a kind of bootlegger during the heyday of the VHS era in the 1990s, copying (and selling) new TNG and DS9 episodes which some friend of a friend have bought in the US and shipped to Brazil.

Okay, there, I said it. You guys can look at my criminal life now LOL

Now, seriously, back to BEYOND - I understand that Pine and Quinto are already signed for STAR TREK 4 and Paramount seems optimistic about the movie, doing fan events and releasing posters and even some spoilers. The actors seems glad too - just read last week's interview with Urban. So what effects really (lets forget about bootlegs for a second) the one month and a half delay of the premiere in great part of the overseas market will bring to the box office. X-MEN APOCALYPSE and BATMAN VS SUPERMAN did not as great as expected in the US but the international box office helped a lot. If we conjecture that BEYOND is a good movie and will please most of the fandom, wil the lack of international sales in the first month gonna really hurt it ? I wonder.

Now if BEYOND is a bad movie.......well.............then we can forget the movie franchise for a few years.

Unless they bring back Rick Berman for more "Prime" movies with the Voyager cast.

Just kidding, guys, just kidding.

Gosh.

Gus

Edited by GustavoLeao

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I was a kind of bootlegger during the heyday of the VHS era in the 1990s, copying (and selling) new TNG and DS9 episodes which some friend of a friend have bought in the US and shipped to Brazil.

Okay, there, I said it. You guys can look at my criminal life now LOL

Now, seriously, back to BEYOND - I understand that Pine and Quinto are already signed for STAR TREK 4 and Paramount seems optimistic about the movie, doing fan events and releasing posters and even some spoilers. The actors seems glad too - just read last week's interview with Urban. So what effects really (lets forget about bootlegs for a second) the one month and a half delay of the premiere in great part of the overseas market will bring to the box office. X-MEN APOCALYPSE and BATMAN VS SUPERMAN did not as great as expected in the US but the international box office helped a lot. If we conjecture that BEYOND is a good movie and will please most of the fandom, wil the lack of international sales in the first month gonna really hurt it ? I wonder.

Now if BEYOND is a bad movie.......well.............then we can forget the movie franchise for a few years.

Unless they bring back Rick Berman for more "Prime" movies with the Voyager cast.

Just kidding, guys, just kidding.

Gosh.

Gus

You may laugh, but if they made a movie of the post-return-to-Earth VGR novels?  Well, let's just say I wouldn't entirely object to that... ;)

I was a kind of bootlegger during the heyday of the VHS era in the 1990s, copying (and selling) new TNG and DS9 episodes which some friend of a friend have bought in the US and shipped to Brazil.

Okay, there, I said it. You guys can look at my criminal life now LOL

I used to rent/dupe laserdiscs onto tape, but those were for my use.  

Oh, and I smoked pot once or twice when in my early 20s.    There.  My entire criminal past laid bare as well.   :laugh:

* waits for the FBI to bash in front door... * :P 

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Yep, the Voyager novels by Kirstin Beyer are quite good, Would translate nicely for the big screen, or even a TV mini series or DVD movies.

But what I really want - and I pray that Kurtzman and Meyer will do that - is to the new movies or the new TV Series to take place 20, 30 years after DS9 and Voyager on board the Enterprise-E with a new captain (or even an older Picard) with cameos from Frakes as Admiral Riker and Sirtis as Ambassador Troi, just to name a few.

In other words, continue the NEXT GENERATION saga with new and old characters the way the X-FILES mini series kinda did it.

I am no fan of JJ TREK, as everybody knows, and I am kinda tired of the current Trek formula, but I would return to watch the franchise again if the CBS All Access series would take place in the prime universe with some familiar faces in cameos.

Heck, I would go back and re-open TrekWeb !

No, not really. I am happy here.

Gus

Edited by GustavoLeao

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Yep, the Voyager novels by Kirstin Beyer are quite good, Would translate nicely for the big screen, or even a TV mini series or DVD movies.

But what I really want - and I pray that Kurtzman and Meyer will do that - is to the new movies or the new TV Series to take place 20, 30 years after DS9 and Voyager on board the Enterprise-E with a new captain (or even an older Picard) with cameos from Frakes as Admiral Riker and Sirtis as Ambassador Troi, just to name a few.

In other words, continue the NEXT GENERATION saga with new and old characters the way the X-FILES mini series kinda did it.

I am no fan of JJ TREK, as everybody knows, and I am kinda tired of the current Trek formula, but I would return to watch the franchise again if the CBS All Access series would take place in the prime universe with some familiar faces in cameos.

Heck, I would go back and re-open TrekWeb !

No, not really. I am happy here.

Gus

I would be OK with a nice, proper standalone TNG reunion TV-movie (to make up for NEM) but a new TV series with the TNG cast wouldn't be moving forward, and I sincerely want this new series (whatever the format) to do something NEW.    New cast, new characters, etc.   Otherwise, what's the point?   A 'new' series with the TNG cast members is just 'boldly going' backward to the past.

As for X-Files?  I enjoyed it the same way I enjoyed seeing the old band get together for one last concert.   And even then the new stories were largely hit-and-miss.  They recaptured the feeling, but feeling wasn't enough.   The rehashed conspiracy felt very tired.    The only times I really got interested were the standalone monster episodes. 

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Guilty. I love the TNG cast and would love to see them pop in some episodes of the new series like TOS actors appeared in several TNG episodes. I want this feel of history, this feel of continuation of the continuing voyages into the 25th Century. I know it can be done.

Gus

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Sim   

I like the idea... the new series should indeed be new and go forward, so placing it *after* TNG/DS9/VOY would be great ... but maybe it would work placing it not so far away into the future, to allow for cameos of TNG/DS9/VOY characters.

But at any rate, the new show should stand on its own legs. It shouldn't depend on cameos by the old guard.

But if they did it just like TNG did it, appearances of the old roles well into season 3 (or season 5, if you don't count Sarek), and just as a one-off thing that doesn't steal the show from the new characters -- that could work.

Edited by Sim

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Speaking more about the need of an excelent international box office for STAR TREK BEYOND, which seems unikely right now, here is the situation on X-MEN APOCALYPSE, which proves how much a movie need to succeed overseas these days.:

BOX OFFICE: X-MEN: APOCALYPSE Performs Admirably Overseas But May End Up Being A Flop Domestically

While X-Men: Apocalypse is performing well overseas (mostly thanks to an impressive debut in China), things are looking pretty bleak in North America, and the statistics are a real embarrassment for Fox.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men/x-men_apocalypse/box-office-x-men-apocalypse-performs-admirably-overseas-a142336

Gus

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Speaking more about the need of an excelent international box office for STAR TREK BEYOND, which seems unikely right now, here is the situation on X-MEN APOCALYPSE, which proves how much a movie need to succeed overseas these days.:

BOX OFFICE: X-MEN: APOCALYPSE Performs Admirably Overseas But May End Up Being A Flop Domestically

While X-Men: Apocalypse is performing well overseas (mostly thanks to an impressive debut in China), things are looking pretty bleak in North America, and the statistics are a real embarrassment for Fox.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men/x-men_apocalypse/box-office-x-men-apocalypse-performs-admirably-overseas-a142336

Gus

I was going to see it, but lackluster reviews and previews sort of put me off.   Hearing that it's not as good as "Civil War" (which had its own issues) didn't help.

I guess we North Americans are a lot more finicky than the Chinese (?)... I dunno. 

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Speaking more about the need of an excelent international box office for STAR TREK BEYOND, which seems unikely right now, here is the situation on X-MEN APOCALYPSE, which proves how much a movie need to succeed overseas these days.:

BOX OFFICE: X-MEN: APOCALYPSE Performs Admirably Overseas But May End Up Being A Flop Domestically

While X-Men: Apocalypse is performing well overseas (mostly thanks to an impressive debut in China), things are looking pretty bleak in North America, and the statistics are a real embarrassment for Fox.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men/x-men_apocalypse/box-office-x-men-apocalypse-performs-admirably-overseas-a142336

Gus

I was going to see it, but lackluster reviews and previews sort of put me off.   Hearing that it's not as good as "Civil War" (which had its own issues) didn't help.

I guess we North Americans are a lot more finicky than the Chinese (?)... I dunno. 

It's really not, but it's not terrible. It's not Last Stand.

Wait for a Netflix rental.

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I found X-MEN APOCALYPSE to be a good movie. Its not great as CAPTAIN AMERICA CIVIL WAR or even DEADPOOL,as I said before, but its a fun movie. But fans expecting another FIRST CLASS or DAYS OF FUTURE PAST will be disappointed.

Gus

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I found X-MEN APOCALYPSE to be a good movie. Its not great as CAPTAIN AMERICA CIVIL WAR or even DEADPOOL,as I said before, but its a fun movie. But fans expecting another FIRST CLASS or DAYS OF FUTURE PAST will be disappointed.

Gus

^
Hence the reason I'm waiting for it to 
appear on Netflix.  I'm still curious; but just not curious enough to throw away $13 when I can watch it at home. 

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I know STID performed well overseas but wasn't the domestic box office juggernaut that they hoped for.

Again, it could also be an indication they might want to move the release date back for most countries, even the U.S. I could see that possibly happening. Perhaps Paramount has lower expectations for Beyond.

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I know STID performed well overseas but wasn't the domestic box office juggernaut that they hoped for.

Again, it could also be an indication they might want to move the release date back for most countries, even the U.S. I could see that possibly happening. Perhaps Paramount has lower expectations for Beyond.

ST (traditionally) doesn't perform as strong overseas as other more 'generic' action movies (such as Transformers, just to name an example).   It's odd too, especially when you consider how many fans it has in other countries besides the North American market.    Look on this site for example; Germany, England, Brazil, Scotland, wherever it is that our own Mr. Garak comes from (just teasing you, Garak... :P ).  

My only guess (?) is that Trekkies in other countries are a rarer breed than they are here?  I dunno.   Judging by the international convention crowds I've seen on documentaries like Trekkies 2 (not to mention all the foreign fans I've met here in US conventions), I find that hard to believe...

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