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GustavoLeao

James Cawley just called it quits.

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Well, it is possibly for the best. I'm not the biggest fan of New Voyages, but I did like Blood and Fire and enjoyed Kitumba well enough.  But their attempt at rebooting things with the new Kirk and everything have not been terribly successful.  The recast Kirk was awful...the stories not that great. And then there is Continues which is just killing it with better production values, better acting, and faster releases...it has to be disheartening (especially since it seems there is a bit of contention between the two groups). 

As there was a trailer for an episode with Richard Hatch which has clearly been shot (or at least mostly shot) I wouldn't be surprised if he just wanted to get it done and out and be done with it.  If it isn't fun and he isn't making money off of it?  Why bother. It is more likely to kill his love of Trek in general if he keeps at it while not enjoying it. It seems there is also another episode that apparently needs reshoots. Who knows if and when that gets done.

I may not have enjoyed that much of their product, but I admire what they did, even back when I found all fan films unwatchable and couldn't deal with the amateur level quality in many aspects...I thought it was more of a "good for them" kinda deal. They were making a product that some fans seemed to really get a kick out of...and they were nominated for Hugo awards! They are a very key entry in the history of fan films.  You don't have to totally love their product to see that.  New Voyages was the first real fan series I ever heard of. I didn't like it when I gave it a shot so many years ago, but it paved the way for Axanar and Star trek Continues and many others.  It upped the ante. Maybe didn't get to where I could find it totally watchable (with a few exceptions), but it upped the production values that made others see it was possible and even think "I bet I could top that." 

So good on him if he thinks it is time to fly his Enterprise off into the sunset.

Edited by kenman

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Honestly, I'm not generally a fan of fan films and was never a big fan of Cawley's portrayal. Nothing against any of it, but I find so much of the fan stuff so profoundly cringe-worthy that I can't watch it.

Continues is really the only fan product that feels like TOS to me. 

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I have to admit, with the exception of "Kitumba" they really haven't BEEN much fun since 2007's "Blood & Fire."   For me, "World Enough and Time" (w. George Takei) was their apex. 

And I hate to say it (as I'm a big believer in fanfic and fan films of any kind) but they've been routinely bested by ST Continues in every way; writing, direction, acting, camera work, FX, you name it.   The NV/P2 guys have been doing it longer, but their best efforts still look amateurish in comparison to STC. 

I admire the NV/P2 films for being pioneers in higher-quality fan films (for 2004 they were quite impressive) and in building real sets instead of virtual ones, but the writing was very uneven (the last one, "The Holiest Thing" was a hot mess), the casting wasn't so great, and Cawley never really convinced as Kirk.   Certainly not to the degree that Vic Mignogna and his team inhabit their roles.   

Maybe it really IS best that Cawley and crew hang up their landing party belts if their hearts are no longer in it.... 

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Honestly, I'm not generally a fan of fan films and was never a big fan of Cawley's portrayal. Nothing against any of it, but I find so much of the fan stuff so profoundly cringe-worthy that I can't watch it.

Continues is really the only fan product that feels like TOS to me. 

Same here.  I gave New Voyages a fair shake after being impressed by Prelude to Axanar and then Continues...but I was never sold on the cast and the varying quality of the productions...I enjoyed a few things, but never really got into the show.  My foray into trying out fan films was really just trying to fill a void of no new episodic Trek when I really wanted some.  Right now I am only interested in seeing Continues episodes. 

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And I hate to say it (as I'm a big believer in fanfic and fan films of any kind) but they've been routinely bested by ST Continues in every way; writing, direction, acting, camera work, FX, you name it. 

From the sets to use of the musical cues it's seamless and that's why I'm sold. They inhabit the work in a way nothing else has really hit upon. For so much of the other stuff it feels like a fancier version of the pretend Star Trek I used to play with my friends as a kid. I could put ST:C next to my TOS season sets  and not feel all "hopeless Trek fanboy" for doing it.

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And I hate to say it (as I'm a big believer in fanfic and fan films of any kind) but they've been routinely bested by ST Continues in every way; writing, direction, acting, camera work, FX, you name it. 

From the sets to use of the musical cues it's seamless and that's why I'm sold. They inhabit the work in a way nothing else has really hit upon. For so much of the other stuff it feels like a fancier version of the pretend Star Trek I used to play with my friends as a kid. I could put ST:C next to my TOS season sets  and not feel all "hopeless Trek fanboy" for doing it.

I'd happily put a Continues boxset right after TAS on my DVD shelf. 

New Voyages not so much. I think that has to play into his decision to wrap it up.  He is seeing others doing essentially the same thing and just knocking it out of the park in every way. Besting them in every department.  When you mix in some bad blood with that other crew it can't ease the annoyance of it.  Then you have the Axanar lawsuit which just made everything murkier, with Alec Peters even making jabs at both New Voyages and Continues during the whole ordeal.  If the fan film community is beginning to feel more competitive and less fun, and you feel like you could be losing in a competition you never wanted to be in?  What fun would that be?

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I have to admit, with the exception of "Kitumba" they really haven't BEEN much fun since 2007's "Blood & Fire."   For me, "World Enough and Time" (w. George Takei) was their apex. 

And I hate to say it (as I'm a big believer in fanfic and fan films of any kind) but they've been routinely bested by ST Continues in every way; writing, direction, acting, camera work, FX, you name it.   The NV/P2 guys have been doing it longer, but their best efforts still look amateurish in comparison to STC. 

I admire the NV/P2 films for being pioneers in higher-quality fan films (for 2004 they were quite impressive) and in building real sets instead of virtual ones, but the writing was very uneven (the last one, "The Holiest Thing" was a hot mess), the casting wasn't so great, and Cawley never really convinced as Kirk.   Certainly not to the degree that Vic Mignogna and his team inhabit their roles.   

Maybe it really IS best that Cawley and crew hang up their landing party belts if their hearts are no longer in it.... 

My thoughts exactly. And the whole thing of rebooting to a different time line with The Holiest Thing is just absurd. I do hope to see the apparently final one with Richard Hatch that is a sequel to For the World is Hollow... though just for the sake of completing it (and seeing how Yolanda will somehow make planet fall to their destination which is what I'm assuming will be why they are there as Kirk promised McCoy they would be). 

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He is seeing others doing essentially the same thing and just knocking it out of the park in every way. Besting them in every department.  When you mix in some bad blood with that other crew it can't ease the annoyance of it. 

It's really gotta twist the knife with them. NV was there longer, and I'm sure they talked smack about ST:C in private knowing it was going to tank and yet there it is, I dare say as close as any fan effort has or ever will come to recreating TOS. 

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It would probably gnaw at me.  If I had created something and was lauded for my efforts early on (even if they were shaky...the nature of what it was gave them leeway for some bad acting and wonky sets)...and then these new kids come in and just up me in every way, gaining a quick following and being called the gold standard.  I'd get bummed out and feel dejected a bit.

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I have to admit, with the exception of "Kitumba" they really haven't BEEN much fun since 2007's "Blood & Fire."   For me, "World Enough and Time" (w. George Takei) was their apex. 

And I hate to say it (as I'm a big believer in fanfic and fan films of any kind) but they've been routinely bested by ST Continues in every way; writing, direction, acting, camera work, FX, you name it.   The NV/P2 guys have been doing it longer, but their best efforts still look amateurish in comparison to STC. 

I admire the NV/P2 films for being pioneers in higher-quality fan films (for 2004 they were quite impressive) and in building real sets instead of virtual ones, but the writing was very uneven (the last one, "The Holiest Thing" was a hot mess), the casting wasn't so great, and Cawley never really convinced as Kirk.   Certainly not to the degree that Vic Mignogna and his team inhabit their roles.   

Maybe it really IS best that Cawley and crew hang up their landing party belts if their hearts are no longer in it.... 

My thoughts exactly. And the whole thing of rebooting to a different time line with The Holiest Thing is just absurd. I do hope to see the apparently final one with Richard Hatch that is a sequel to For the World is Hollow... though just for the sake of completing it (and seeing how Yolanda will somehow make planet fall to their destination which is what I'm assuming will be why they are there as Kirk promised McCoy they would be). 

If they don't finish it?  There is an excellent TMP-era sequel to "For the World is Hollow..." in novel form called "Ex Machina."   Well worth a look... 

He is seeing others doing essentially the same thing and just knocking it out of the park in every way. Besting them in every department.  When you mix in some bad blood with that other crew it can't ease the annoyance of it. 

It's really gotta twist the knife with them. NV was there longer, and I'm sure they talked smack about ST:C in private knowing it was going to tank and yet there it is, I dare say as close as any fan effort has or ever will come to recreating TOS. 

To me, it truly is the continuation of TOS.   STC is the 4th 'official' season of TOS in my book (and TAS is season 5... :P ). 

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I have to say...this all makes me think that the end of fan films may very well be at hand.  At least in their current state.  New Voyages is apparently now coming to an end. Axanar has caused a whole big issue.  I have a feeling that Continues plans to finish up their 13 episode plan and then they will feel like calling it quits (after a rough crowdfunding campaign and all). Renegades plans not to continue after an episode or two. Horizon was asked not to make a follow-up by the powers that be.  It just seems like the winds are changing...and with official guidelines coming from CBS and Paramount soon...I wonder how it could end up affecting the whole game. 

For me, personally, I don't see this as the biggest loss. I just want to see Continues get it's 13 episodes out.  They've apparently got the funding, and they seem to have a plan.  I wanna see what they have up their sleeve.  Other than that...I'm not a big enough fan film supporter to care...but it does seem like with a new show coming and all...this free reign they've had for a while is gonna come to an end, and I really wonder how the field will prevail. 

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I have to say...this all makes me think that the end of fan films may very well be at hand.  At least in their current state.  New Voyages is apparently now coming to an end. Axanar has caused a whole big issue.  I have a feeling that Continues plans to finish up their 13 episode plan and then they will feel like calling it quits (after a rough crowdfunding campaign and all). Renegades plans not to continue after an episode or two. Horizon was asked not to make a follow-up by the powers that be.  It just seems like the winds are changing...and with official guidelines coming from CBS and Paramount soon...I wonder how it could end up affecting the whole game. 

For me, personally, I don't see this as the biggest loss. I just want to see Continues get it's 13 episodes out.  They've apparently got the funding, and they seem to have a plan.  I wanna see what they have up their sleeve.  Other than that...I'm not a big enough fan film supporter to care...but it does seem like with a new show coming and all...this free reign they've had for a while is gonna come to an end, and I really wonder how the field will prevail. 

I guess I'm the optimist, but while I do agree that this current wave of fan films will end?  I also think a new generation will emerge.  

And as the technology gets better?  They'll also get easier and easier to make... 

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I have to say...this all makes me think that the end of fan films may very well be at hand.  At least in their current state.  New Voyages is apparently now coming to an end. Axanar has caused a whole big issue.  I have a feeling that Continues plans to finish up their 13 episode plan and then they will feel like calling it quits (after a rough crowdfunding campaign and all). Renegades plans not to continue after an episode or two. Horizon was asked not to make a follow-up by the powers that be.  It just seems like the winds are changing...and with official guidelines coming from CBS and Paramount soon...I wonder how it could end up affecting the whole game. 

For me, personally, I don't see this as the biggest loss. I just want to see Continues get it's 13 episodes out.  They've apparently got the funding, and they seem to have a plan.  I wanna see what they have up their sleeve.  Other than that...I'm not a big enough fan film supporter to care...but it does seem like with a new show coming and all...this free reign they've had for a while is gonna come to an end, and I really wonder how the field will prevail. 

I guess I'm the optimist, but while I do agree that this current wave of fan films will end?  I also think a new generation will emerge.  

And as the technology gets better?  They'll also get easier and easier to make... 

Possible...just depends on how these new guidelines end up going. 

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I can't claim to have ever been a big fan film fan.  But I was always impressed with how much New Voyages/Phase II managed to do; especially getting real TOS actors back in the fold.

But I think the shit-storm of Axanar has soured a lot of people, and rightfully so.  The guy in charge of Axanar really seems like a sleaze ball whose milked things for his own personal and financial benefit.  And I have to admit to being a bit turned off when the actors themselves begin doing it and asking us to fund it (Renegades) because as much as I like their passion, I don't like the appearance it can have...

 

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My favorite episodes were WORLD ENOUGH AND TIME (Takei did a very good performance and the recreation of the USS Excelsior bridge was flawless) and KITUMBA (a very epic 1977 script which was directed by Vic Mignogna before his feud with Cawley). RIP STAR TREK NEW VOYAGES

13336127_10209566005366176_6580882142755

Gus

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I have to say...this all makes me think that the end of fan films may very well be at hand.  At least in their current state.  New Voyages is apparently now coming to an end. Axanar has caused a whole big issue.  I have a feeling that Continues plans to finish up their 13 episode plan and then they will feel like calling it quits (after a rough crowdfunding campaign and all). Renegades plans not to continue after an episode or two. Horizon was asked not to make a follow-up by the powers that be.  It just seems like the winds are changing...and with official guidelines coming from CBS and Paramount soon...I wonder how it could end up affecting the whole game. 

For me, personally, I don't see this as the biggest loss. I just want to see Continues get it's 13 episodes out.  They've apparently got the funding, and they seem to have a plan.  I wanna see what they have up their sleeve.  Other than that...I'm not a big enough fan film supporter to care...but it does seem like with a new show coming and all...this free reign they've had for a while is gonna come to an end, and I really wonder how the field will prevail. 

I guess I'm the optimist, but while I do agree that this current wave of fan films will end?  I also think a new generation will emerge.  

And as the technology gets better?  They'll also get easier and easier to make... 

Possible...just depends on how these new guidelines end up going. 

I don't think they'll be too draconian.   The reason they're dropping the suit is to foster good will with the fan base.    My guess (and this is ONLY my guess) is that they'll be more specific about the selling of tie-in merchandise, like Axanar's buttons, t-shirts, blu rays, etc.   That's the kind of stuff I imagine they'll want to end more so than use of the Klingon language or the Starfleet emblem.  

Again, this is only a guess on my part, but it seems other fan films had been using all of the ST symbols, languages, etc and the hammer only came down when Axanar started getting more into the profiteering side of things like the tie-in merchandising, or using the crowdsourced funded Axanar studio to make other non-ST movies.   Axanar abused the privilege; hence, the hammer fell... 

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Clearly, if you're not having fun while you are investing so much into a project - it's time to quit.  I will always be thankful to James Cawley for his pioneering work - he really did pull the genre far forward.  My favorite is World Enough And Time.

ME

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My favorite episodes were WORLD ENOUGH AND TIME (Takei did a very good performance and the recreation of the USS Excelsior bridge was flawless) and KITUMBA (a very epic 1977 script which was directed by Vic Mignogna before his feud with Cawley). RIP STAR TREK NEW VOYAGES

13336127_10209566005366176_6580882142755

Gus

^
This was their apex as far as I'm concerned.   As I've said before, I thought this was Takei's finest performance as Hikaru Sulu.   EVER. 

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In honor of the inevitable end, I decided to give another crack of the whip to this series. I watched their Chekov episode featuring Walter Koenig, "To Serve All My Days."  Sadly, I thought it was mostly a load of crap. 

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In honor of the inevitable end, I decided to give another crack of the whip to this series. I watched their Chekov episode featuring Walter Koenig, "To Serve All My Days."  Sadly, I thought it was mostly a load of crap. 

Wasn't fond of that one.  But then again, Chekov was never a favored character of mine (and I'm sorry, but Koenig's Russian accent is just terrible).

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I'm sorry to see Cawley stop, though I get it.  He did a LOT of good for the franchise, and it won't be forgotten.  Sure, there were quality issues on occasion, but he was the pioneer.  He deserved every accolade he got. 

If it's not fun for him anymore, then of course he should stop. 

 

As for that Chekov episode, I liked it until the ending.  It was stupid that they had to film an extra scene just to negate the ending.

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It was the "it was all a dream" stuff that bugged me, but it was also this weird ego placating thung where Chekov is the "best navigator and weapons expert in the fleet." Uh...he is still just a kid. And ensign. It all felt like they needed to inflate Koenig's ego about just how special his little character was. It is the same weird thing that Takei had, where his ego got inflated because he got promoted to Captain. But it is all make-believe! 

I've personally never liked the "aging rapidly" gimmick, but at least here I get why it is used...to utilize an original actor that they snagged. But they did it slightly better with"World Enough and Time" directly after this. I am not with enamored with that one as others here...but it was certainly better than this.  

 

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It was the "it was all a dream" stuff that bugged me, but it was also this weird ego placating thung where Chekov is the "best navigator and weapons expert in the fleet." Uh...he is still just a kid. And ensign. It all felt like they needed to inflate Koenig's ego about just how special his little character was. It is the same weird thing that Takei had, where his ego got inflated because he got promoted to Captain. But it is all make-believe! 

I've personally never liked the "aging rapidly" gimmick, but at least here I get why it is used...to utilize an original actor that they snagged. But they did it slightly better with"World Enough and Time" directly after this. I am not with enamored with that one as others here...but it was certainly better than this.  

 

Yeah, "To Serve All Our Days" felt like a Walter Koenig love-fest.   And the added ending was a copout (see: Killing major characters thread); I preferred the original cut where he just died.   But adding the fake-out 'dream' ending was sloppy; like much of STP2.

At least Takei serviced a genuine story with "World Enough..." and his alternate daughter is still alive in his memory; she mattered.  

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