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DC Movies Crisis ? JUSTICE LEAGUE in Chaos ?

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Geoff Johns Promises To Bring "Hope And Optimism" To The DC Films Universe
 
Newly appointed head of Warner Bros.' DC Films division Geoff Johns talks about his approach to these movies, seemingly indicating that we'll soon see a very different version of Superman in particular...
 

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Geoff Johns Promises To Bring "Hope And Optimism" To The DC Films Universe
 
Newly appointed head of Warner Bros.' DC Films division Geoff Johns talks about his approach to these movies, seemingly indicating that we'll soon see a very different version of Superman in particular...
 

I'd say optimism was definitely an ingredient missing in BvS... 

BvS made the ALIEN franchise look like ET. 

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Geoff Johns Promises To Bring "Hope And Optimism" To The DC Films Universe
 
Newly appointed head of Warner Bros.' DC Films division Geoff Johns talks about his approach to these movies, seemingly indicating that we'll soon see a very different version of Superman in particular...
 

I'd say optimism was definitely an ingredient missing in BvS... 

BvS made the ALIEN franchise look like ET. 

That's an interesting comparison. I like it. These recent DC movies feel like Alien 3 with their doom and gloom environment. 

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Geoff Johns Promises To Bring "Hope And Optimism" To The DC Films Universe
 
Newly appointed head of Warner Bros.' DC Films division Geoff Johns talks about his approach to these movies, seemingly indicating that we'll soon see a very different version of Superman in particular...
 

I'd say optimism was definitely an ingredient missing in BvS... 

BvS made the ALIEN franchise look like ET. 

That's an interesting comparison. I like it. These recent DC movies feel like Alien 3 with their doom and gloom environment. 

And ALIEN 3 is where that franchise fell off the rails for me... it was just nihilism for nihilism's sake.   There was no hope; not even Ripley was worth rooting for anymore.  She no longer had a cause beyond her own survival; and even so, she opts for suicide (?).    And ALIEN Resurrection tried to give a bit more fun into the show, but it was too little too late.    They never got back the roller-coaster excitement of ALIENS or the original 'haunted house in space' vibe of ALIEN.  

Before this new announcement, I was starting to think the DC movies were stuck on the same path... 

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In Geoff Johns we trust !

Gus

I'll trust only when I see how their influence changes things; it's still not 100% clear exactly how this will affect the final product.  But I agree it's cause for some hope.   Superman has been Darkman for too long.   These days he acts more like Dexter Morgan than Clark Kent... 

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Johns wrote the BEST Superman comic book of the decade - SUPEMAN CRISIS IN 3 WORLDS. Art by George Perez.

13245488_10209476193120926_4643797889415

Yep, its that good. Highly recommended for anyone interested in Johns version of Superman, and fans of George Perez artwork.

Gus

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Johns is saying the right things.  Superman is the lynchpin to DC.

The real question is--does he try to clean up the mess or does he blow the whole thing up?

 

If it were me, I would put a halt to Justice League, rewrite the script completely, and if I don't want to waste time bringing Superman back to life, I would recast and end the Snyder era.

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Johns is saying the right things.  Superman is the lynchpin to DC.

The real question is--does he try to clean up the mess or does he blow the whole thing up?

 

If it were me, I would put a halt to Justice League, rewrite the script completely, and if I don't want to waste time bringing Superman back to life, I would recast and end the Snyder era.

I think a reboot is in order, yes.  

Snyder had a few interesting ideas, but his overall take on Superman is just wrong.

The fact they've put Geoff Johns in charge of the movie division is at least recognition of the problem.  

But I would leave Affleck exactly where he is; a lot of critics and many fans agreed he was the only really successful element of BvS.   I would definitely take the faux gray out of his hair, though.   Affleck can play 36, no sweat.   There is precedent for leaving one actor in place after a franchise reboot; "M", played by Dame Judi Dench in the Brosnan Bond era and the rebooted Craig movies.  She was perfect, so they (wisely) left her in charge.   As the director of Casino Royale said, 'you don't recast Dame Judi Dench!' :laugh:   Affleck's Batman was the only thing in BvS that genuinely held my interest throughout the entire movie.   In fact, I almost wished he'd played the role in the Nolanverse trilogy as well (so slight intended on Bale; I just like Affleck's overall take better).

However, I would clean house on the rest.    Even Cavill; a decent actor, but he lacks the 'spark' for Superman.   I would go back to what Donner did and cast an unknown in the role; start from scratch.   And as much as it pains me to say it?  I'd do the same for Lois Lane.  I adore Amy Adams, but this isn't a good role for her.   It's a bit like using Michelangelo to hang drywall on a suburban housing tract.    She can do better

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Lois really doesn't have much of a role in a Justice League movie.  She belongs in a SUPERMAN movie.

Thing is, I don't get the feeling they are going to do a full reboot.  They are already filming Part One, and Snyder is still directing.

So when will we see Johns' influence?

If I were Johns, I would put a stop to EVERYTHING.

I WOULD do a Justice League movie, but it would be more of a "let's rehabilitate Superman" movie.  It would be a Superman movie with other heroes in it. 

Maybe I would start it with Superman's debut and establish the optimism.  And no, his debut would not involve destroying a city.

He would win over the hearts and minds of the people instantly.  Maybe that whole debut would be one scene.  Then I would do a time jump and get to the real threat, which would bring members of the Justice League together.

They are smart to want to use Darkseid.  So follow the lead of the cartoon.  Have Darkseid send his minions to Earth. Superman of course stops them, and let's have more than one, so that we have other heroes in the story.

The end of the movie will be the start of the full invasion, where we get a glimpse of Darkseid himself.

 

 

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Lois really doesn't have much of a role in a Justice League movie.  She belongs in a SUPERMAN movie.

Thing is, I don't get the feeling they are going to do a full reboot.  They are already filming Part One, and Snyder is still directing.

So when will we see Johns' influence?

If I were Johns, I would put a stop to EVERYTHING.

I WOULD do a Justice League movie, but it would be more of a "let's rehabilitate Superman" movie.  It would be a Superman movie with other heroes in it. 

Maybe I would start it with Superman's debut and establish the optimism.  And no, his debut would not involve destroying a city.

I really don't think another take on Superman's origin is necessary at this point; his backstory is known everywhere through cultural osmosis.   You could just have bits of it mentioned in passing where relevant.   But I would start the movie IN present-day Metropolis; he's already Superman.  But in quick lines and maybe a flashback or two you could fill in the missing bits.  

A very elegant example of this was 2008's "The Incredible Hulk" (an underrated movie in the Marvel canon; overshadowed by the flashier "Iron Man" which debuted the same year).    It re-told Bruce Banner's entire (slightly revised) origin story in a flashback sequence over the main credits.   The audience got it.  All the info they needed was truncated into 3-4 minutes.   Superman's origin could be told that way as well...

But you REALLY don't need another 2-3 hour opus for mansplaining to the audience things they already know back-to-front.  

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On the other hand, lets not forget that it was Johns was the writer who killed the original, Golden Age Superman in the pages of INFINITY CRISIS, again art by George Perez, saving the current Supoerman and the entire DC universe.

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4329427-6119017733-kalde.jpg

Gus

Edited by GustavoLeao

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I don't want an ORIGIN story for Superman.  Think of the pilot episode of Lois and Clark.  No Krypton, no Smallville.  The only reason I would do this is because we have to establish SUPERMAN.  Certainly don't want a 2 hour movie dedicated to it.

 

If you're looking to Hulk as a guide, then I think all the Kryptonian scenes could absolutely be done in a credits montage.  They don't even need much from Jor-El--just have him press the button to launch the rocket.  Give us some scenes with Jonathan and Martha to show they exist and who the actors are.  Then onto Metropolis where we see Superman in action.  Done RIGHT, they might even be able to do a little more in the credits, but getting the excitement of Superman's debut done in the credits would be pretty hard.

 

Johns had a GREAT quote in his interview when countering the idea that Superman isn't relate-able.  Of course he is.  He's a farm boy moving to the big city trying to do the best he can with the gifts he has.  It's an amazing story of a very good man who represents the best of us.  That's the Superman I want to see, and that is the Superman that WAS the most popular hero ever.  Don't make Superman too light, don't make Batman too dark. 

 

The key here is that Superman must be established as the symbol of hope and peace that he is, but he must also be strong and a badass.  Once you establish that, other heroes can be brought in. 

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ARROW Star Willa Holland Slams Warner Bros.; Confirms Studio Forced Them To Kill Off SUICIDE SQUAD Characters
 
Things between the DC TV Universe and DC Films Universe may be about to reach a boiling point because Arrow star Willa Holland is the latest to lash out at the lack of connectivity between them.
 

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I keep saying this, but not being part of the movie universe is the best thing that could happen to the TV people. 

I don't disagree but it sounds like the tv world is subservient to the awful movie world. The tv folks are hampered by whatever scatterbrained idea the movie folks have. They can't explore new situations and characters. 

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That tends to be the case in any franchise because in theory, the bigger money is in the movies.  So I get that.

However, I do feel they underestimate the audience.  I don't mind that the TV universe is separate because the movie universe is so bad.  What I WOULD like to see is that the TV people aren't limited by the movie universe as to what characters can be used.

The A list heroes should be allowed to be mentioned and used at will.  The audience is intelligent enough to know that a Superman or Batman or Wonder Woman played by another actor is not going to affect the continuity of a movie, ESPECIALLY if you factor in other Earths.

So yes, I would allow Suicide Squad on Arrow.  I would have Superman appear on Supergirl.  It's utterly ridiculous that he hasn't.

I would in passing, mention Gotham City.  And maybe have a Batman/Arrow crossover.

Marvel kicks DC's butt because they crossover and use their full universe.  DC should do the same.

 

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So yes, I would allow Suicide Squad on Arrow.  I would have Superman appear on Supergirl.  It's utterly ridiculous that he hasn't.

He has appeared; in silhouette and in long shots.   In fact, he's in the opening credits sequence every week.   He is the shadow that looms over the series, but (IMO) should NEVER be onscreen, because it would immediately pigeonhole the entire show; would it be Cavill/Superman, or a new one?  Would he be Reeve-like?   Etc. etc.  

I like it better that he is like Penny's last name in "Big Bang Theory"; an enigma.   Known to people onscreen, but not to us.  In essence, he is like the older brother who's idolized but never quite makes it home for Thanksgiving dinner; his picture is on the mantle, but he's not there in person.  

And I'm totally OK with that because the minute he appears in full onscreen, it becomes SuperFriends and I, as a fan of show (or former fan, now that Cat isn't coming back), would not want to see the purity of the show corrupted.   It would lose what made it special.   I wish they'd get rid of that stupid Superman-express call button.   The show should evolve towards the goal of making Supergirl as good (if not better) than her cousin; after all, she was sent there to protect him, right?    Capitol City has got Supergirl and her own Scooby gang; develop her further and they won't NEED Superman.   

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I think we both know that Superman in a shadow is not a real appearance.  Cast the man and involve him in an adventure with Kara--that's appearing.

And in my opinion if you cast him, you define him and yes, I think he would be very Reeve like, because Cavill is NOT Superman. 

And again, there has not been a report that Cat isn't coming back.  As recently a few days ago, it was reported that she WANTS to continue with the show.  She won't move to Canada full time, and you may miss her for an episode or two, but I'm confident she will be on the show.

Given that they've had Martian Manhunter, and will have Flash and likely Arrow and we may see other heroes, Superman's appearance doesn't turn it into Superfriends.  It makes for a special episode, and it's a LOT better than Superman doing a Wile E. Coyote splat on the pavement and having to come with excuses why he can't be seen every time the danger is upped.

 

 

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I think we both know that Superman in a shadow is not a real appearance.  Cast the man and involve him in an adventure with Kara--that's appearing.

And in my opinion if you cast him, you define him and yes, I think he would be very Reeve like, because Cavill is NOT Superman. 

And again, there has not been a report that Cat isn't coming back.  As recently a few days ago, it was reported that she WANTS to continue with the show.  She won't move to Canada full time, and you may miss her for an episode or two, but I'm confident she will be on the show.

Given that they've had Martian Manhunter, and will have Flash and likely Arrow and we may see other heroes, Superman's appearance doesn't turn it into Superfriends.  It makes for a special episode, and it's a LOT better than Superman doing a Wile E. Coyote splat on the pavement and having to come with excuses why he can't be seen every time the danger is upped.

 

 

Then they should just make the stupid Superman series and get it over with; he's too strong a presence NOT to overpower the other characters (hence the wise earlier decision to use him enigmatically).   He's not the same as Flash or Jonez.   They're supporting characters on Supergirl.   But Superman is a bona fide movie character (even if the character hasn't had a decent cinematic turn in awhile).   Once he's on Supergirl, it's the Superman hour guest starring Kara.   

I know you feel differently but it's my sincere belief that is precisely what would happen. 

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I don't think Superman would overpower the characters anymore than Flash did.  Barry is also an A lister.  Yes, Superman is the top dog, but done right, and I really feel these writers can do that, it would be amazing.

It's all about centering.  Perfect example--when the Enterprise D was docked at DS9 in a DS9 episode.  Despite being the E-D, it looked just like another ship, based on the camera work, which centered on the station, not the ship.  Ultimately, there's a difference between being a guest star and a star.  It just hasn't been done yet with Superman.  Yes, he would be Superman, and yes, he would be powerful and badass.  If he isn't, then he's being dumbed down. 

If there are multiple villains, then Superman fighting one while Kara fights the other would be awesome.

 

 

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I don't think Superman would overpower the characters anymore than Flash did.  Barry is also an A lister.  Yes, Superman is the top dog, but done right, and I really feel these writers can do that, it would be amazing.

It's all about centering.  Perfect example--when the Enterprise D was docked at DS9 in a DS9 episode.  Despite being the E-D, it looked just like another ship, based on the camera work, which centered on the station, not the ship.  Ultimately, there's a difference between being a guest star and a star.  It just hasn't been done yet with Superman.  Yes, he would be Superman, and yes, he would be powerful and badass.  If he isn't, then he's being dumbed down. 

If there are multiple villains, then Superman fighting one while Kara fights the other would be awesome.

 

 

Superman as a character is known in outer Mongolia and remote jungles in South America; Flash isn't.   Big difference.   

Supergirl (the series) is still finding itself.  This would be a dangerous time to start using her more-famous cousin as a crutch. 

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Ben Affleck Says His Solo BATMAN Film Will Feature A 'Mostly' Original Story
 
While there have been several rumours about what comic book storylines Ben Affleck's untitled Batman film might borrow from, the actor says he plans to focus on something more original for his project.
 

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No one is doubting Superman's place in world culture, but the key is making a story where Superman HELPS Kara, not takes over for her.

I think that once you show Superman in full face on the show, the temptation to overuse him will be too great.   I don't yet trust the show to do the right thing when it comes to restraint.  He's too easy a 'get-out-of-jail' card not to (over)use.   While I thought the reason was kind of lame, I did like when Superman appeared to be joining the rescue in the finale, only to join the brainwashed masses (!).  That was a genuine surprise, but the reasoning for it was too silly.   But having him actually appear in full will just be too easy.  

Like I've said, Supergirl is a good show but it's not yet a great show.  Aside from Kara and Cat, the rest of the cast are not really that interesting (James Olsen is still a bit too 'male model' for my taste).   And the rumor about Cat leaving the show, or being back in a reduced capacity already shows me that they're judgment is questionable.   Frankly, she was the best and most consistent single element of the show IMO.   Without her, it's just another superhero series. 

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