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GustavoLeao

DC Movies Crisis ? JUSTICE LEAGUE in Chaos ?

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Are you talking about the score from Batman v. Superman?  Don't confuse my statement of WONDER WOMAN'S music for an endorsement of the whole score.  The music WAS terrible--except for Wonder Woman.  It's like a broken clock that was right twice a day.  I really think that's why people are gushing over the character.

I was, yes, and I understood and was agreeing with you. There are only three tracks that are listenable, with WW's being one of them. Zimmer is capable of worlds better.

His score for "Interstellar" was well... stellar.   He is a great composer when he puts his mind to it; but like any other big screen composer?  He can sometimes do a score on autopilot (BvS was one of them; and yes, the WW motif was OK, but it didn't quite knock my socks off). 

 

I freely admit that it may only sound better than it actually is because it's surrounded by s&^%.

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Hard to say if he's at fault or that's another Snyder thing--kind of like how Berman didn't want music to be a part of his versions of Star Trek, maybe Snyder ordered a certain direction for the music here.  This is by far the worst music for Superman ever--not even close.

Every other theme, dating back to the 1950s, is uplifting. 

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Damn, I miss John Williams Superman score. One of the few things about Bryan Singer's SUPERMAN RETURNS that I liked, he used Wiliams theme on his movie and that was an inspiring movie. And personally I am not a fan of SUPERMAN RETURNS at all for several reasons.

Check it out -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyE1V6Ac49Q

Gus

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Damn, I miss John Williams Superman score. One of the few things about Bryan Singer's SUPERMAN RETURNS that I liked, he used Wiliams theme on his movie and that was an inspiring movie. And personally I am not a fan of SUPERMAN RETURNS at all for several reasons.

Check it out -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyE1V6Ac49Q

Gus

I see Superman Returns (and John Ottman's use of John Williams' score) as noble attempts to recapture some of the '78 movie's feeling; there is a decent attempt at a Richard Donner Superman movie in there, but it stumbles quite a bit too.   Ottman's score captured some of the awe and power of Williams' original; and for that, I give it serious kudos.   It may be the last time I will ever again feel inspired by a Superman soundtrack (and that was 10 years ago!).

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I also feel that using the John Williams score was the only thing Superman Returns got RIGHT.

Let's pretend Superman Returns was actually a good movie, that nailed it.  No one would doubt the music was great.

It was the one thing in the movie that was a constant.  Singer's mistakes had nothing to do with the MUSIC.  Richard Donner couldn't have made that script work though because it wasn't a good story.

And I will argue that it really wasn't SUPERMAN either--just for different reasons than we got from Snyder. 

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In An Attempt To Course Correct, WB Appoints Geoff Johns & Jon Berg As Co-Heads Of DC Films

Breaking news out of Warner Bros. tonight as it's being reported that they've made a major shakeup with their DC Films division, naming Geoff Johns & Jon Berg to co-run the new operation.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman/in-an-attempt-to-course-correct-wb-appoints-geoff-johns-jon-berg-as-a141806

Gus

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THAT is good news.  I don't know much about Berg, but Johns is a very good writer.

The real question is--how will they course correct.  BvS left them in a quandry. 

I would almost be tempted to say that all movies from here on out take place on a different Earth, so they aren't bound by any continuity.  I wish they made this decision BEFORE Justice League started filming. 

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THAT is good news.  I don't know much about Berg, but Johns is a very good writer.

The real question is--how will they course correct.  BvS left them in a quandry. 

I would almost be tempted to say that all movies from here on out take place on a different Earth, so they aren't bound by any continuity.  I wish they made this decision BEFORE Justice League started filming. 

I would let them do a soft reboot on the whole mess; not erase all of it, but only those things which didn't work.   Kind of like how Superman Returns sort of ignored Superman III & IV.    And honestly, they could just jump into the full-on Justice League at this point without any more preamble or buildup; the audience will catch on. 

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They could, but odds are the scripts are done.

If they lighten the tone and change the costumes, that's a start.  What sucks is thanks to Snyder, we have to actually spend time bringing Superman back.

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They could, but odds are the scripts are done.

If they lighten the tone and change the costumes, that's a start.  What sucks is thanks to Snyder, we have to actually spend time bringing Superman back.

I'm sure the script could be rewritten with two new production heads in charge.   In fact, they could order a revision.   That's kind of the point of new leadership; to correct what the other guys got wrong.   Cosmetic stuff like the costumes would be more the purview of the director (and art director, costumers, etc).   

 

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I actually love Johns as a writer. His GREEN LANTERN and JUSTICE LEAGUE stories are the best thing DC  published in recent years.

Gus

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But how much could they change this late into things?  Have to figure that Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman are in the can.

If you're the writer, what do you do?  Ignore the other movies, and start with your own vision?  Or try to clean up the other movies and fix what is likely a very bad script?

And notice that Snyder is not replaced as director.

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But how much could they change this late into things?  Have to figure that Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman are in the can.

If you're the writer, what do you do?  Ignore the other movies, and start with your own vision?  Or try to clean up the other movies and fix what is likely a very bad script?

And notice that Snyder is not replaced as director.

Well, he was replaced as director for the standalone Batman project (in favor of Affleck); that was encouraging...

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But here's the question--where will they go with Batman?  I strongly think they should ignore Affleck's age and act as if Batman is in his prime.  I really don't care about Batman's achy joints and knee problems.  Let him be in his prime.  I don't think we need a young Batman first starting out either. 

I would have him in his 30s, not in his 40s.  Dick Grayson's time as Robin would be done--let him be Nightwing.  He's in his mid 20s.  If they did a better job, I would introduce Demian Wayne.  But they haven't, so maybe Tim Drake is the way to go.

 

Another issue--would you change the looks of certain characters?  I think the Joker looks terrible.  Should they redesign the character? 

One thing I would definitely do is redesign Superman's costume to make it more traditional.  Wonder Woman too.  Batman's look was fine. 

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But here's the question--where will they go with Batman?  I strongly think they should ignore Affleck's age and act as if Batman is in his prime.  I really don't care about Batman's achy joints and knee problems.  Let him be in his prime.  I don't think we need a young Batman first starting out either. 

I would have him in his 30s, not in his 40s.  Dick Grayson's time as Robin would be done--let him be Nightwing.  He's in his mid 20s.  If they did a better job, I would introduce Demian Wayne.  But they haven't, so maybe Tim Drake is the way to go.

 

Another issue--would you change the looks of certain characters?  I think the Joker looks terrible.  Should they redesign the character? 

One thing I would definitely do is redesign Superman's costume to make it more traditional.  Wonder Woman too.  Batman's look was fine. 

I think the costumes were the least of DC's problems; frankly, if they were better written and in more cohesive (and fun?) stories, then I doubt many people would care what they're wearing.   I don't really have issue with Superman's look (looks better without man-panties), but they could make the colors a bit bolder with more pop (ala Iron Man's candy-apple red and gold suit; maybe a red and blue with a bit more pizzaz).   I thought the new Batman's look was terrific; love the fibrous look of the suit, and WW's outfit (while perhaps a bit too "300"-ish) is the smart way to introduce WW into the 21st century; as a warrior-woman. 

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Given how bad the movie is, I would agree that costumes weren't the biggest problem, though they are part of why DC doesn't get it.

Superman is not supposed to have essentially a black costume.  Snyder purposefully made the blue as dark as possible. 

The normal Superman costume also generates a feeling of friendliness, that this is a good person.  I realize there's more to a person than colors, but it's all part of the package.

Messing with an iconic costume never really turns out good. 

You're right about Iron-Man.  His costume looks great.  So does Cap's.  But Superman and Wonder Woman were too dark and 300ish as you put it.

 

Wonder Woman as a warrior woman is absolutely the way to go.  That's who she is.  But the costume still sucked.

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Given how bad the movie is, I would agree that costumes weren't the biggest problem, though they are part of why DC doesn't get it.

Superman is not supposed to have essentially a black costume.  Snyder purposefully made the blue as dark as possible. 

The normal Superman costume also generates a feeling of friendliness, that this is a good person.  I realize there's more to a person than colors, but it's all part of the package.

Messing with an iconic costume never really turns out good. 

You're right about Iron-Man.  His costume looks great.  So does Cap's.  But Superman and Wonder Woman were too dark and 300ish as you put it.

 

Wonder Woman as a warrior woman is absolutely the way to go.  That's who she is.  But the costume still sucked.

I think it was probably the smartest way to introduce a character who could easily become a laughing stock.   Same with Aquaman.   Some guy in scaly orange tights, holding a triton and wearing a blond wig would look like "Try our new Seafood Smorgasbord at Capt. Dave's".    I can see why DC chose to do those two perhaps a bit 'darker' than they needed to be.   Lynda Carter's star-spangled panties would similarly be a joke today.... 

I think DC's characters just aren't as conceptually cool as Marvel's; hence the impulse to 'darken them up' which I'll admit, they overdid with Superman.   Now he's now just a superpowered joyless d!ck.

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You put Wonder Woman in her traditional costume, and write her like the warrior she is, no one will laugh at her.  They will cheer her on.

 

Wonder Woman comes from another culture--a culture that loathes what they call "Man's World."  But Wonder Woman doesn't feel that way--she cares about Man's World, and wants to be a bridge between those worlds.  Her feelings are rebellious but she defies her mother, the queen, to go to the US and help.

 

The key is that she is a fierce warrior, but not a cold one.  She has the warmth you would want to see that makes her not only tough, but likeable at the same time.

Steve Trevor is an important character to making her likeable. That's why putting him in WWI sucks.

 

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You put Wonder Woman in her traditional costume, and write her like the warrior she is, no one will laugh at her.  They will cheer her on.

I simply disagree.

It'll look silly.  The darker costume works in this case because WW is inherently silly; as are many DC characters.   The only way a 'lighter' costume could work would be if someone like Joss Whedon were writing/directing it; he could give it the same touch he gave Buffy (another silly concept that was made workable).   He was attached to a WW movie at one time, but left over "creative differences."  

I weep for the movie that wasn't.    

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I simply disagree.

It'll look silly.  The darker costume works in this case because WW is inherently silly; as are many DC characters. 

Yes. For sure. That old Polyester and fake gold outfit? No. 

Edited by prometheus59650

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I simply disagree.

It'll look silly.  The darker costume works in this case because WW is inherently silly; as are many DC characters. 

Yes. For sure. That old Polyester and fake gold outfit? No. 

Nothing against Lynda Carter, mind you; she's always a vision, even if she were wearing Uncle Jesse's overalls from "The Dukes of Hazzard."  But that old WW outfit (and even the manifold variations of it) just don't translate well into this age.   These movies are made for current audiences, rather than sentimental 40-50somethings to whom Lynda Carter was their first TV-crush (myself among them).   In the age of US female fighter pilots and women serving in combat, the costume has to look more kick ass than cheesecake. 

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You put Wonder Woman in her traditional costume, and write her like the warrior she is, no one will laugh at her.  They will cheer her on.

I simply disagree.

It'll look silly.  The darker costume works in this case because WW is inherently silly; as are many DC characters.   The only way a 'lighter' costume could work would be if someone like Joss Whedon were writing/directing it; he could give it the same touch he gave Buffy (another silly concept that was made workable).   He was attached to a WW movie at one time, but left over "creative differences."  

I weep for the movie that wasn't.    

 

To this I add that none of the X-Men wear whatever they had in the comic books....and no one gives two hoots. Even Logan's hair has changed a lot and again, it doesn't matter at all. 

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You put Wonder Woman in her traditional costume, and write her like the warrior she is, no one will laugh at her.  They will cheer her on.

I simply disagree.

It'll look silly.  The darker costume works in this case because WW is inherently silly; as are many DC characters.   The only way a 'lighter' costume could work would be if someone like Joss Whedon were writing/directing it; he could give it the same touch he gave Buffy (another silly concept that was made workable).   He was attached to a WW movie at one time, but left over "creative differences."  

I weep for the movie that wasn't.    

 

To this I add that none of the X-Men wear whatever they had in the comic books....and no one gives two hoots. Even Logan's hair has changed a lot and again, it doesn't matter at all. 

Because a cinematic performance is a lot more than a sum of cosmetic elements; it's about the performer underneath them.   If he/she brings that character to life, the rest is just so much afterthought.   If the costume aesthetics makes or breaks the movie?  Then I think something is lacking with the actor occupying it. 

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You put Wonder Woman in her traditional costume, and write her like the warrior she is, no one will laugh at her.  They will cheer her on.

I simply disagree.

It'll look silly.  The darker costume works in this case because WW is inherently silly; as are many DC characters.   The only way a 'lighter' costume could work would be if someone like Joss Whedon were writing/directing it; he could give it the same touch he gave Buffy (another silly concept that was made workable).   He was attached to a WW movie at one time, but left over "creative differences."  

I weep for the movie that wasn't.    

 

Btw, this was a clue that something was wrong with DC if Whedon left with the usual 'creative differences' thing. 

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You put Wonder Woman in her traditional costume, and write her like the warrior she is, no one will laugh at her.  They will cheer her on.

I simply disagree.

It'll look silly.  The darker costume works in this case because WW is inherently silly; as are many DC characters.   The only way a 'lighter' costume could work would be if someone like Joss Whedon were writing/directing it; he could give it the same touch he gave Buffy (another silly concept that was made workable).   He was attached to a WW movie at one time, but left over "creative differences."  

I weep for the movie that wasn't.    

 

Btw, this was a clue that something was wrong with DC if Whedon left with the usual 'creative differences' thing. 

And went on to direct "Avengers" only a short time later... and of course, it went on to become one of the highest grossing superhero movies of all time. 

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