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John32070

Something that has always bothered me about the end of Conspiracy

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No, not the head blowing up. That was cool.

What gets me is how the peace-and-no-conflict-at-all-cost Picard disregarded Remmick's statement of "We mean you no harm, we seek peaceful co-existence" and killed him and the controlling creature. Despite what he and Riker just witnessed and the death of 800 or so on the Horatio (not sure on the crew numbers on an Ambassador class but that sounds about right) I always thought that was sort of spitting in the face of what the 24th century Starfleet was about. Granted, the creatures committing murder just to hide their true identities isn't peaceful or shows they don't mean harm, but I thought the spiel Picard was always telling back at the time was how Starfleet considered any life sacred and so on.

I'm also still bugged they never followed this up (they were going to, but the Borg were brought up instead), and for all we know there could be a whole infestation of these things still controlling Starfleet people. 

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By the time Picard reached the end of the line with them, they'd proven themselves murderers and highjackers of other human beings with designs on taking over Starfleet.

Life is sacred, but when their idea of peaceful co-existence is, "Let us take over or die," the only acceptable response is pretty clear.

Same with the Borg, It's one of the reasons utterly despise, "I, Borg." 

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By the time Picard reached the end of the line with them, they'd proven themselves murderers and highjackers of other human beings with designs on taking over Starfleet.

Life is sacred, but when their idea of peaceful co-existence is, "Let us take over or die," the only acceptable response is pretty clear.

I think Picard would've been willing to negotiate, but not while those creatures controlled peoples' thoughts/wills.   That was basically parasitical enslavement.   And yes, the deaths of the crew of the Horatio was a line in the sand; once the parasites crossed it?  Their lives were forfeit.   

I normally am against Picard acting so out of character, but given the circumstances (violent enslavement and murder of innocents)?  He truly had NO choice.  

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By the time Picard reached the end of the line with them, they'd proven themselves murderers and highjackers of other human beings with designs on taking over Starfleet.

Life is sacred, but when their idea of peaceful co-existence is, "Let us take over or die," the only acceptable response is pretty clear.

Same with the Borg, It's one of the reasons utterly despise, "I, Borg." 

Completely agree about I, Borg. "Well, we're in danger of being wiped out by these things, but at least we have our morals, and that's more important than how we could have stopped them". Admiral Necheyev (or however you spell her name) was right on to ask Picard "what the hell is wrong with you?" later on about it.

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By the time Picard reached the end of the line with them, they'd proven themselves murderers and highjackers of other human beings with designs on taking over Starfleet.

Life is sacred, but when their idea of peaceful co-existence is, "Let us take over or die," the only acceptable response is pretty clear.

Same with the Borg, It's one of the reasons utterly despise, "I, Borg." 

Completely agree about I, Borg. "Well, we're in danger of being wiped out by these things, but at least we have our morals, and that's more important than how we could have stopped them". Admiral Necheyev (or however you spell her name) was right on to ask Picard "what the hell is wrong with you?" later on about it.

I like "I, Borg" probably for all of the reasons everyone here hates it.  :giggle:

I think the circumstances in "IB" were a lot different than "Conspiracy" for one thing; in IB this was only one Borg, who wasn't actually invading or destroying anyone.   It's like finding an unarmed enemy soldier who's unconscious behind enemy lines.   Do you just kill him while he's passed out, or do you follow the Geneva convention?   I think Picard did the humane thing, even if it wasn't necessarily the 'right' thing.  Granted, his bringing individuality to the Borg was kind of a disaster, but that's the chance you have to take when you do the morally right thing... sometimes it's returned with gratitude; other times it blows up in your face.    But Picard was (after his talk with Guinan) listening to his truer self. 

Sometimes 'right' and 'morally right' aren't always congruent, sadly...

"Conspiracy" had the invaders already infiltrating at the highest level; they'd already declared 'checkmate.' 

Picard's choices in that episode were more akin to removing a hostile invader from power rather than to show (or NOT show) mercy toward an injured enemy soldier. 

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Granted, his bringing individuality to the Borg was kind of a disaster, but that's the chance you have to take when you do the morally right thing... sometimes it's returned with gratitude; other times it blows up in your face.    But Picard was (after his talk with Guinan) listening to his truer self. 

Honestly, that Hugh could somehow "infect" them with individuality doesn't even make sense. Their entire civilization is based on the subjugation of personality. They'd suppress  his personality again just as easily as before.

And, while I can understand Picard's moral issue, personally I have a bigger one with the notion that, to preserve my own sense of morality by not trying, I'm condemning billions to death and worse.   

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Granted, his bringing individuality to the Borg was kind of a disaster, but that's the chance you have to take when you do the morally right thing... sometimes it's returned with gratitude; other times it blows up in your face.    But Picard was (after his talk with Guinan) listening to his truer self. 

Honestly, that Hugh could somehow "infect" them with individuality doesn't even make sense. Their entire civilization is based on the subjugation of personality. They'd suppress  his personality again just as easily as before.

And, while I can understand Picard's moral issue, personally I have a bigger one with the notion that, to preserve my own sense of morality by not trying, I'm condemning billions to death and worse.   

True.

I'm not sure exactly why (and maybe I need to watch the episode again) Hugh wasn't simply granted asylum aboard the Enterprise (?).   He could've given Starfleet the same kind of valuable intel against the Borg that Seven of Nine would offer years later (and Janeway didn't even offer her a choice about staying with Voyager or not).  I can't remember exactly, but was there a reason Hugh didn't elect to stay with his 'friend' Geordi?  His transceiver unit could've been switched off, so the Borg wouldn't have homed in on his signal, so what happened exactly?

But as for the alien parasites in "Conspiracy"?  There were no 'innocent' parasites in that bunch; they were all puppet-mastering Starfleet in the hopes of achieving power for themselves, not for any high-minded ideals of 'peaceful coexistence' (and when Remington says the line "we seek peaceful coexistence!" he says it with a lot of sneer in his voice....).

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No, not the head blowing up. That was cool.

What gets me is how the peace-and-no-conflict-at-all-cost Picard disregarded Remmick's statement of "We mean you no harm, we seek peaceful co-existence" and killed him and the controlling creature. Despite what he and Riker just witnessed and the death of 800 or so on the Horatio (not sure on the crew numbers on an Ambassador class but that sounds about right) I always thought that was sort of spitting in the face of what the 24th century Starfleet was about. Granted, the creatures committing murder just to hide their true identities isn't peaceful or shows they don't mean harm, but I thought the spiel Picard was always telling back at the time was how Starfleet considered any life sacred and so on.

I'm also still bugged they never followed this up (they were going to, but the Borg were brought up instead), and for all we know there could be a whole infestation of these things still controlling Starfleet people. 

I had read that the producer and/or writing room didn't like how dark the episode ultimately got and it was decided not to follow it up.  I had always wondered what could have been with that.  I think the "Drumhead" acknowledged  this episode in Norah Satie's back story in that she was instrumental in uncovering the conspiracy in "The Conspiracy."

I suspect that in actuality, the writers room along with the producers of the show when through so many changes between seasons 1-3 there wasn't anyone interested in following up this story,  Rovert Sabaroff, who wrote the story was gone by season two (he had professional connection with Bob Justman), and Tracy Torme who wrote the teleplay was often in conflict with Maurice Hurley who was promoted to show runner in season 2 - so it's no surprise that they didn't continue to develop the parasites as a villain - even more clear given that it was Hurley who went on to develop Q Who and created the Borg in season 2 as a follow up to his Teleplay for "The Neutral Zone," which also set up a mysterious villain.  I think that it all came down to who won the creative battle/war that was season one. 

Edited by digitalmoose
typo

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"Conspiracy" was the kind of story that was ripe for follow-up on DS9.   DS9 in fact, would've been the perfect venue for that kind of darker, 'don't-trust-anyone' kind of idea.

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"Conspiracy" was the kind of story that was ripe for follow-up on DS9.   DS9 in fact, would've been the perfect venue for that kind of darker, 'don't-trust-anyone' kind of idea.

So good they did it with the Founders. 

As interesting as the Borg were, I think with a little creative effort the Conspiracy aliens could have been just as much. Remember all the paranoia that affected the Federation with the Founders? Imagine that, plus, the fact that it isn't just a shapeshifter imitating someone, but a nasty bug hooked to their spinal cords and being controlled by someone else who has had their innards gutted and has an even bigger nasty living inside them that way. 

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