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Robin Bland

Doctor Who - General Discussion

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That's nice that it can be eligible.  Awards rarely matter to me, but it is nice all the same. 

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I don't understand how something on TV is not eligible for Emmys, especially if it airs in the US.  But it's true--if the show is good, the Emmys don't matter.

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I don't really get it either, but I s'pose it's just a regional thing. Emmys = US TV (broadly), BAFTAs = British, though I never understand how the Golden Globes seem to cover everything.

Best award ever is indeed = many viewers, popularity.

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3681991/Back-Time-Lord-Steven-Moffat-hints-Matt-Smith-Doctor-star-regenerate-return-series.html?ito=social-facebook

 

This would be a hell of an interesting idea if it's done.  I can't even begin to try to find it, but I could have sworn I've talked about this idea before--a prior actor coming back to the role, with a current Doctor regenerating into that prior Doctor.  The 50th established that the Doctor can regenerate at some future time and revisit old faces.

 

My guess is that this will be a divisive topic, but once executed, as long as the show is good, it will be fine.  I liked Smith in the role though Tennant remains my favorite Doctor of the modern era.

If we were bringing back a prior Doctor, Smith would be my third choice, behind Tennant and McGann, just because I'd like to see what McGann would do with the role.

What really would be interesting would be whether if this is done, would he have the same traits as the 11th Doctor?

Or would he be a totally different Doctor, but with Smith's appearance?

 

And there could be consequences/regeneration sickness that affects things for awhile.

 

 

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It's too soon, far too soon, to bring back Smith entirely. If there's a multi-doctor episode (not a Christmas special or anniversary shindig), I'm all aboard for having Smith return to share the floor with Capaldi. They'd be an excellent contrast and play off of each other well, especially if it's Smith's Series 6 Doctor. He became more of an old man, inwardly, while Capaldi's seems to have a mid-life crisis, what with the guitar playing and overall punk attitude (which I adore about him). But to have the Doctor regenerate back into Smith's form just after he transformed is too much, too soon. Capaldi needs to have at least one Moffat-free season. He deserves new, fresh writing. Not to say that the last two seasons were awful, they were far from it. Probably my favorite of the revival. But the episodes all eventually fell prey to the usual Moffat-isms that have plagued the show since the beginning of Smith's tenure. 

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I'd be OK with Smith returning for a 'two-Doctors' style role, but nothing permanent.   Again; DW is about moving forward, not backward.

This is the kind of thinking that would've gotten us another year of Jon Pertwee after Tom Baker left... 

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I'd be OK with Smith returning for a 'two-Doctors' style role, but nothing permanent.   Again; DW is about moving forward, not backward.

This is the kind of thinking that would've gotten us another year of Jon Pertwee after Tom Baker left... 

It is total nonsense from papers taking quotes out of context.  Smith said he'd like to return someday, and he also joked that "they'd let me back, right!?" and then Moff said something about Smith regretting leaving and wishing he could come back...and now people have taken this as if Smith would return full-time...which is absolutely not going to happen.  The former lead and the soon to be former showrunner have no say on what will happen with the show, and I doubt Chibnall wants to go backwards and recast someone Moff cast.  He has asked Capaldi to stay, because I'm sure he just wants to keep some continuity and liked Capaldi's take on the character...but if Capaldi decides to move on?  Chibnall is going to want to make his own mark and find his own Doctor that he can develop.

This crap happened before when Smith was leaving, and people were saying "Could Tennant return!!!???!?!?!?!??"  It is just clickbait. 

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A move like this would be VERY unprecedented.  I love multi-doctor stories.  But returning Smith to the role would be unprecedented.  He did leave too soon, as did Tennant.  Neither did much since.  Yes, they have had some roles, but nothing on the level of what they had.

 

 

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A move like this would be VERY unprecedented.  I love multi-doctor stories.  But returning Smith to the role would be unprecedented.  He did leave too soon, as did Tennant.  Neither did much since.  Yes, they have had some roles, but nothing on the level of what they had.

 

 

Tennant has been in a few series ("Broadchurch"; both UK and US versions) and some movies.   Matt Smith has done several movies of his own.   Neither actor needs DW that badly.   They could return for a one-off, but neither should return full-time.  That's redundant. 

I'd be OK with Smith returning for a 'two-Doctors' style role, but nothing permanent.   Again; DW is about moving forward, not backward.

This is the kind of thinking that would've gotten us another year of Jon Pertwee after Tom Baker left... 

It is total nonsense from papers taking quotes out of context.  Smith said he'd like to return someday, and he also joked that "they'd let me back, right!?" and then Moff said something about Smith regretting leaving and wishing he could come back...and now people have taken this as if Smith would return full-time...which is absolutely not going to happen.  The former lead and the soon to be former showrunner have no say on what will happen with the show, and I doubt Chibnall wants to go backwards and recast someone Moff cast.  He has asked Capaldi to stay, because I'm sure he just wants to keep some continuity and liked Capaldi's take on the character...but if Capaldi decides to move on?  Chibnall is going to want to make his own mark and find his own Doctor that he can develop.

This crap happened before when Smith was leaving, and people were saying "Could Tennant return!!!???!?!?!?!??"  It is just clickbait. 

^
I'm inclined to agree.  Something thrown out of context to whet fanboy appetites.

 

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Tennant has been in a few series ("Broadchurch"; both UK and US versions) and some movies.   Matt Smith has done several movies of his own.   Neither actor needs DW that badly.   They could return for a one-off, but neither should return full-time.  That's redundant. 

It's not the same thing.  Yes, they've worked, but not on the same level.  What may have made more sense would have been to try to do something big in the non-Doctor Who season, so they could build a name for themselves in other roles.

 

 

 

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A move like this would be VERY unprecedented.  I love multi-doctor stories.  But returning Smith to the role would be unprecedented.  He did leave too soon, as did Tennant.  Neither did much since.  Yes, they have had some roles, but nothing on the level of what they had.

 

 

That is crazy...both have worked consistently and successfully since leaving Tennant had a great turn on Broadchurch and that Marvel show on Netflix, and has done several movies and TV appearances, as well as many successful stage productions.  Smith has been acting in movies, including a big budget Hollywood feature in Terminator Genysis. To say they haven't done much is utterly ridiculous.  I mean Smith has been out of the role 3 years and has done plenty in those three years. 

Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they aren't working...I wouldn't say Tennant left too soon. Sure I'd have loved more from him, but he did 4 years and had a good run...he left when he felt it was time to move on, and his successful career since leaving has proved him right.  He may not be popping up in the shows you are watching, but he has been pretty busy.  I think Smith's tenure felt shorter...but he left when he felt the time was right, and whether he regrets it now or not...he has left, and I'd be bored if the show went backwards with his return (which is not gonna happen). 

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Tennant has been in a few series ("Broadchurch"; both UK and US versions) and some movies.   Matt Smith has done several movies of his own.   Neither actor needs DW that badly.   They could return for a one-off, but neither should return full-time.  That's redundant. 

It's not the same thing.  Yes, they've worked, but not on the same level.  What may have made more sense would have been to try to do something big in the non-Doctor Who season, so they could build a name for themselves in other roles.

Um... they have.   Tennant's been in Broadchurch (both UK and US versions) and Daredevil.   Smith's made movies (several).   As an actor, you want to move your career forward and try different things, not cook the same old hash potatoes over and over again.  

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A series in the UK that doesn't have a fraction of the worldwide audience Doctor Who has, and a few episodes in a netflix original show, no matter how well he has done, isn't much considering it's been 6 years.  Yes, Smith has been IN movies, but that's not exactly on par with starring in Doctor Who.  Neither of them have even come close to what they had before.  Again--never said they haven't worked, but both of them could use Doctor Who.

 

 

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A series in the UK that doesn't have a fraction of the worldwide audience Doctor Who has, and a few episodes in a netflix original show, no matter how well he has done, isn't much considering it's been 6 years.  Yes, Smith has been IN movies, but that's not exactly on par with starring in Doctor Who.  Neither of them have even come close to what they had before.  Again--never said they haven't worked, but both of them could use Doctor Who.

As a guest appearance maybe, but NOT for a full time series' lead.   That's contrary to the forward thinking of the show. 

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I'd rather have Sean Pertwee play his father's role than have Tennant come back in any form again. Fans have really ruined his iteration of the Doctor for me.

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I'd rather have Sean Pertwee play his father's role than have Tennant come back in any form again. Fans have really ruined his iteration of the Doctor for me.

I loved Tennant, but I'd never want ANY past actor to take up the role again.   Not that I didn't love any of them in the role, but I want the series to continue to be something new and fresh; and not retread familiar ground.   ST's strength and appeal (for me) lies largely in its chameleonic ability to reinvent its lead character every few years... it keeps the audience guessing, and it keeps the show fresh.   That's always a good thing. 

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I'd rather have Sean Pertwee play his father's role than have Tennant come back in any form again. Fans have really ruined his iteration of the Doctor for me.

I loved Tennant, but I'd never want ANY past actor to take up the role again.   Not that I didn't love any of them in the role, but I want the series to continue to be something new and fresh; and not retread familiar ground.   ST's strength and appeal (for me) lies largely in its chameleonic ability to reinvent its lead character every few years... it keeps the audience guessing, and it keeps the show fresh.   That's always a good thing. 

I agree (tho I believe you mean DW not ST).  I loved Tennant, he is the guy that got me sucked into the rabbit hole that is Doctor Who...but I don't want to see the show retreat into the old familiar...I want to see someone new give a new interpretation. Even if Tennant or Smith gave a new interpretation...I'd much rather see someone else, then see their other idea they rejected when they had the shot. 

A series in the UK that doesn't have a fraction of the worldwide audience Doctor Who has, and a few episodes in a netflix original show, no matter how well he has done, isn't much considering it's been 6 years.  Yes, Smith has been IN movies, but that's not exactly on par with starring in Doctor Who.  Neither of them have even come close to what they had before.  Again--never said they haven't worked, but both of them could use Doctor Who.

It is very rare to have several successes. To suggest that their career isn't going too well or it's not enough because they didn't stumble into another international megahit?  Ridiculous.  

And you are REALLY REALLY underestimating just how much work Tennant has done since leavign Who.  He has been in a lot, not just Broadchurch and whatever he did in the Marvel show, but he has been in movies, TV movies, and other television roles. And he has been really active on the stage in successful runs in Shakespeare shows.  Just because he isn't the lead on an worldwide super-show does not make him less successful or busy.  Broadchurch may be better known in England, but it has been seen by many here in the States...hell I was gonna suggest my parents watch it, and they already had watched it. Doctor Who is a rare hit, judging their subsequent career to the level of that show is a hard metric to keep them on for the rest of their lives. 

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I'd rather have Sean Pertwee play his father's role than have Tennant come back in any form again. Fans have really ruined his iteration of the Doctor for me.

I loved Tennant, but I'd never want ANY past actor to take up the role again.   Not that I didn't love any of them in the role, but I want the series to continue to be something new and fresh; and not retread familiar ground.   ST's strength and appeal (for me) lies largely in its chameleonic ability to reinvent its lead character every few years... it keeps the audience guessing, and it keeps the show fresh.   That's always a good thing. 

I agree (tho I believe you mean DW not ST). 

Yep.   Another senior moment, brought to you by Sehlat Vie... :P

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I'm all for Matt Smith, David Tennant and even Christopher Eccleston and Paul McGann to return in multi-Doctor anniversary specials - or even as one-off guests in regular episodes with the incumbent Doctor. Otherwise, go forward, not back.

Really hoping that Peter Capaldi stays for Chibnall's first season as showrunner. But it's Doctor Who - it will and should change, no matter what. And if it doesn't, it'll die. I was there during original broadcast when the show began eating itself back in the 80s under the sterwardship of script editor Eric Saward and producer JN-T and arguably, that was the beginning of the end of the classic show. (There were other factors that contributed to that demise, but Saward and JN'T's dependence on aspects from the show's past was a big part of it.) It recovered with Andrew Cartmel's appointment but sadly it was too little, too late.

These days, the loss of a showrunner is a much bigger deal than a departing lead actor. People complain about Moffat - and there are things to complain about - but I'd say his reign as benevolent dictator has been largely successful, especially the last two Capaldi seasons.

I think I'm more worried about the changeover to Chibnall than any change of lead actor. That said, I've heard Chibnall is thinking of instituting more of an American system as showrunner, an actual writer's room, which could make for a much tighter overall sensibility to his version of the show. Or not! But it's potentially the biggest overhaul the modern, post-2005 production will have yet undergone. 

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I'm all for Matt Smith, David Tennant and even Christopher Eccleston and Paul McGann to return in multi-Doctor anniversary specials - or even as one-off guests in regular episodes with the incumbent Doctor. Otherwise, go forward, not back.

Really hoping that Peter Capaldi stays for Chibnall's first season as showrunner. But it's Doctor Who - it will and should change, no matter what. And if it doesn't, it'll die. I was there during original broadcast when the show began eating itself back in the 80s under the sterwardship of script editor Eric Saward and producer JN-T and arguably, that was the beginning of the end of the classic show. (There were other factors that contributed to that demise, but Saward and JN'T's dependence on aspects from the show's past was a big part of it.) It recovered with Andrew Cartmel's appointment but sadly it was too little, too late.

These days, the loss of a showrunner is a much bigger deal than a departing lead actor. People complain about Moffat - and there are things to complain about - but I'd say his reign as benevolent dictator has been largely successful, especially the last two Capaldi seasons.

I think I'm more worried about the changeover to Chibnall than any change of lead actor. That said, I've heard Chibnall is thinking of instituting more of an American system as showrunner, an actual writer's room, which could make for a much tighter overall sensibility to his version of the show. Or not! But it's potentially the biggest overhaul the modern, post-2005 production will have yet undergone. 

I'm also a Russell T Davies fan as well; kind of an unsung hero in the Doctor's 2005 resurrection.  I read a lot of RTD bashing online lately, and I find that very unfortunate.  He did so much for DW; opening up the DW format to a whole new pace & energy, as well as all-new heroes, villains and a general feeling of inclusiveness (esp. for new minority/LGBT roles).   I look at RTD and Moffat as co-authors of DW's modern era.    

And yes, Chibnall is a big gamble; wonder if he'll stay the course or shake it up as radically (and progressively) as RTD did in 2005. 

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I'm all for Matt Smith, David Tennant and even Christopher Eccleston and Paul McGann to return in multi-Doctor anniversary specials - or even as one-off guests in regular episodes with the incumbent Doctor. Otherwise, go forward, not back.

Really hoping that Peter Capaldi stays for Chibnall's first season as showrunner. But it's Doctor Who - it will and should change, no matter what. And if it doesn't, it'll die. I was there during original broadcast when the show began eating itself back in the 80s under the sterwardship of script editor Eric Saward and producer JN-T and arguably, that was the beginning of the end of the classic show. (There were other factors that contributed to that demise, but Saward and JN'T's dependence on aspects from the show's past was a big part of it.) It recovered with Andrew Cartmel's appointment but sadly it was too little, too late.

These days, the loss of a showrunner is a much bigger deal than a departing lead actor. People complain about Moffat - and there are things to complain about - but I'd say his reign as benevolent dictator has been largely successful, especially the last two Capaldi seasons.

I think I'm more worried about the changeover to Chibnall than any change of lead actor. That said, I've heard Chibnall is thinking of instituting more of an American system as showrunner, an actual writer's room, which could make for a much tighter overall sensibility to his version of the show. Or not! But it's potentially the biggest overhaul the modern, post-2005 production will have yet undergone. 

I'm also a Russell T Davies fan as well; kind of an unsung hero in the Doctor's 2005 resurrection.  I read a lot of RTD bashing online lately, and I find that very unfortunate.  He did so much for DW; opening up the DW format to a whole new pace & energy, as well as all-new heroes, villains and a general feeling of inclusiveness (esp. for new minority/LGBT roles).   I look at RTD and Moffat as co-authors of DW's modern era.    

And yes, Chibnall is a big gamble; wonder if he'll stay the course or shake it up as radically (and progressively) as RTD did in 2005. 

I'd agree with that assement re: RTD and Moffat. There were a hell of a lot of ancillary creators / contributors, but those guys had the overall, lead vision. RTD always got bashed - I think many classic fans simply couldn't handle his version of the show, the way he reshaped it and opened it up. Like any authorial voice, he has his strengths and weaknesses, but personally I stand back in awe at what he achieved - the way he took this creaky, trad old British SF show and made it not only accessible to just about anybody, but made it relevant and cool, made it appeal across generational and cultural boundaries. (I think that's what peeved the traditionalists, really - that it wasn't just about the whacko alien with a blue box anymore, but about his companions too. It became soap as well as SF. And it didn't just "belong" to them anymore.) Moffat took the show to enormous international success, but he absolutely would not have been able to do that without the very secure foundations that RTD set up. [Doffs cap to RTD.] Between the to of them, they have brought us eleven years of new Doctor Who and a universe of new spin-offs, both on TV and other media, with more yet to come. I am extremely thankful for that.

Chibnall is also an old-time fan and seasoned TV professional. His love for Doctor Who is not in dispute. I just don't get the sense he has the same kind of auteur quality as either RTD or Moffat, Broadchurch notwithstanding. But maybe this will be the moment where he rises to the occasion and blossoms in no uncertain terms. That is the regeneration I'm really waiting with baited breath for.

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I'm all for Matt Smith, David Tennant and even Christopher Eccleston and Paul McGann to return in multi-Doctor anniversary specials - or even as one-off guests in regular episodes with the incumbent Doctor. Otherwise, go forward, not back.

Really hoping that Peter Capaldi stays for Chibnall's first season as showrunner. But it's Doctor Who - it will and should change, no matter what. And if it doesn't, it'll die. I was there during original broadcast when the show began eating itself back in the 80s under the sterwardship of script editor Eric Saward and producer JN-T and arguably, that was the beginning of the end of the classic show. (There were other factors that contributed to that demise, but Saward and JN'T's dependence on aspects from the show's past was a big part of it.) It recovered with Andrew Cartmel's appointment but sadly it was too little, too late.

These days, the loss of a showrunner is a much bigger deal than a departing lead actor. People complain about Moffat - and there are things to complain about - but I'd say his reign as benevolent dictator has been largely successful, especially the last two Capaldi seasons.

I think I'm more worried about the changeover to Chibnall than any change of lead actor. That said, I've heard Chibnall is thinking of instituting more of an American system as showrunner, an actual writer's room, which could make for a much tighter overall sensibility to his version of the show. Or not! But it's potentially the biggest overhaul the modern, post-2005 production will have yet undergone. 

I'm also a Russell T Davies fan as well; kind of an unsung hero in the Doctor's 2005 resurrection.  I read a lot of RTD bashing online lately, and I find that very unfortunate.  He did so much for DW; opening up the DW format to a whole new pace & energy, as well as all-new heroes, villains and a general feeling of inclusiveness (esp. for new minority/LGBT roles).   I look at RTD and Moffat as co-authors of DW's modern era.    

And yes, Chibnall is a big gamble; wonder if he'll stay the course or shake it up as radically (and progressively) as RTD did in 2005. 

I'd agree with that assement re: RTD and Moffat. There were a hell of a lot of ancillary creators / contributors, but those guys had the overall, lead vision. RTD always got bashed - I think many classic fans simply couldn't handle his version of the show, the way he reshaped it and opened it up. Like any authorial voice, he has his strengths and weaknesses, but personally I stand back in awe at what he achieved - the way he took this creaky, trad old British SF show and made it not only accessible to just about anybody, but made it relevant and cool, made it appeal across generational and cultural boundaries. (I think that's what peeved the traditionalists, really - that it wasn't just about the whacko alien with a blue box anymore, but about his companions too. It became soap as well as SF. And it didn't just "belong" to them anymore.) Moffat took the show to enormous international success, but he absolutely would not have been able to do that without the very secure foundations that RTD set up. [Doffs cap to RTD.] Between the to of them, they have brought us eleven years of new Doctor Who and a universe of new spin-offs, both on TV and other media, with more yet to come. I am extremely thankful for that.

Chibnall is also an old-time fan and seasoned TV professional. His love for Doctor Who is not in dispute. I just don't get the sense he has the same kind of auteur quality as either RTD or Moffat, Broadchurch notwithstanding. But maybe this will be the moment where he rises to the occasion and blossoms in no uncertain terms. That is the regeneration I'm really waiting with baited breath for.

^
And who knows?  This could be Chibnall's dream assignment.   He might take it and run with it.    Fingers crossed! :)

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Sean Pertwee would actually make a very interesting Doctor--though he wouldn't have to be the third version.  He could be his own version.

 

I think the idea of a prior Doctor returning full time, as a new incarnation of the Doctor is an interesting one.  I don't think there's a wrong opinion here.  The idea of wanting a great actor back in the role is valid.  So is the idea of wanting to move forward. 

Very interesting thought that the loss of a showrunner is a bigger deal than a lead actor.  I think that's fair too.  They have shown amazing judgment in replacing Doctors so far.  Moffat's run has been overall a very good one.  It will be interesting to see where the next guy takes them, but I would also guess that BBC is smart enough to gauge fan reaction, and if it's highly negative, the new guy will be fired.

 

For me, RTD wasn't perfect, and I do prefer Moffat, but overall, I can't fail to acknowledge how much good RTD did for the franchise.  If not for him, I never would have watched.

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Sean Pertwee would actually make a very interesting Doctor--though he wouldn't have to be the third version.  He could be his own version.

 

I think the idea of a prior Doctor returning full time, as a new incarnation of the Doctor is an interesting one.  I don't think there's a wrong opinion here.  The idea of wanting a great actor back in the role is valid.  So is the idea of wanting to move forward. 

Agreed on Pertwee Jr.

Not so much on the 2nd point.   Retreating back into a comfortable 'proven' actor as choice for a 'new' Doctor has never been (nor should it be) the show's style.   The new Doctor should ALWAYS be a new face; this is part of the show's bedrock (since 1966).

So many of the show's best moments would never have happened if that kind of thinking prevailed.   We probably would've never had Colin Baker or Sylvester McCoy (both of whom I loved) if the show runners simply brought back Tom Baker when Peter Davison left.    And again, I love Tom Baker; he was my favorite 'classic' Doctor... but I also look forward to seeing who's next.   That's the charm of the show; the anticipation of "Whos" to come.   

Retreating into a 'safe' and proven option is against EVERYTHING that works for the show.   

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The idea of a previous Doctor returning to the role isn't a new one - Sydney Newman, one of the original creators of the show, made a list of recommendations at the end of the 80s to the BBC saying Patrick Troughton should be brought back. Tom Baker was proposed as a fourth Doctor "who never regenerated" for the aborted 1993 30th anniversary special the Dark Dimension. But it's an exercise in nostalgia and while the fanboy in me might enjoy it in the short term, I think as a way of continuing the show, it's a death sentence. You never give people what they think they want. You give them what they don't know they want. (Unless you're JJ Abrams, who expertly re-coats old stuff as new. But that's another thread, sorry...)

That said, I love the occasional multi-Doctor anniversary special, and think there's a real case for "Doctor flashback" episodes - I still think a "Doctor-lite" episode could bring back McGann as the eighth Doctor for a one-off adventure and it would be rapturously received. But they have to remain as special occasions, celebrating and elaborating upon what has gone, but with the prow of the ship forever pointed at the inventive future.

As to showrunner, I find it very difficult to choose between RTD and Moffat. I think they both have strengths and weaknesses, and both understand Doctor Who from the inside out. They just express it in different ways and both, to my mind, are inordinately successful at it. I think I prefer Moffat's "high-concept" stuff, but I miss RTD's ear for dialogue and easy characterization. But that's reducing what they both gave to two small qualities in a body of work that is, frankly, monumental.

Sean Pertwee's an interesting actor and, like his dad, he has a great face. He's got the pedigree! Would he make a good Doctor? I dunno, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to seeing him try. I actually think he'd make a better Master. Or maybe some all-new, recurring villain.


And who knows?  This could be Chibnall's dream assignment.   He might take it and run with it.    Fingers crossed! :)

Yup! :)

 

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