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Captain_Bravo

Was All of Enterprise Riker's Holodeck Simulation?

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I prefer to think that "These Are The Voyages..." was Crewman Daniels' holodeck program in the 29th century (a bad one, I might add), and ENT was an alternate timeline that began with the deviations in the movie "First Contact" (Cochrane's original Phoenix flight crew dead, for example; that had to change something).   

But for me?  TATV isn't canon, not the whole of ENT.

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I prefer to think that "These Are The Voyages..." was Crewman Daniels' holodeck program in the 29th century (a bad one, I might add), and ENT was an alternate timeline that began with the deviations in the movie "First Contact" (Cochrane's original Phoenix flight crew dead, for example; that had to change something).   

But for me?  TATV isn't canon, not the whole of ENT.

Same. TATV isn't even connected to the TNG ep that it's spun from in any logical way.

That's the only holo-delusion going on.

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TATV would've been a somewhat tolerable episode if it weren't trying to be the proper finale to Enterprise.  It just felt tacked on, lame, and silly.  Enterprise on the whole I kind wobble on whether or not I actually wanna keep it canon.  It did so many things wrong for me personally, until the last ditch effort of the fourth season. 

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Then again, maybe we're dealing an alternate alternate reality:

1) The Borg screw up the original timeline by going back to 2063, which creates an alternate future where the Borg have conquered and assimilated Earth.  The Enterprise-E goes back, blows up the sphere, which crash-lands in the Arctic and remains buried for a century.  The warp flight happens as scheduled, but with Riker and LaForge as the co-pilots.  This creates a restored timeline but with a few differences since Cochrane knows about the statue and his place in history.  Picard and Data stop the Borg Queen and the ship is saved.  This is what happened in FC - some changes, but overall the timeline is still intact.

2) But, the climactic scene is on the Enterprise-E when Picard sets the auto-destruct.  If Data just let the auto-destruct ride, the ship would have blown up and the warp flight could have gone as scheduled.  Riker, LaForge, Troi, etc would have survived.  Since it takes a long time for humans to age in the 24th century (think of Picard - he's like 80 years old and still kicking ass and taking names), why couldn't Riker (who would have been around 38 years old in FC) live "in a quiet corner of North America," go to cooking school, and become the chef on Enterprise?  He'd only be 126 years old.  Then, in the 24th century, Cmdr. Riker on the Enterprise-D looks into the history of the NX-class Enterprise, finds himself, and realizes that he has to be on that ship...

But then, maybe I'm just crazy... :P

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I go with the explanation they give in the ENT relaunch (post-TATV) novels: Trip didn't really die, that's just the official version, and Riker's holodeck program was based on that false official version.

These novels are part of my head canon, so there it is.

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I go with the explanation they give in the ENT relaunch (post-TATV) novels: Trip didn't really die, that's just the official version, and Riker's holodeck program was based on that false official version.

These novels are part of my head canon, so there it is.

Yeah, they're mine too.

They have a great explanation as to why humans and Romulans never 'saw' each other face-to-face either (despite the advent of ship-to-ship visual communications, as we saw in the ENT series).  I also like how the 'retrograde technology' used to prevent Starfleet ships from being hacked (ala Battlestar Galactica) is one of the reasons Kirk's vessel a century later looks more 'primitive' than Archer's. 

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Some of the things in ENT's alternate history (if indeed that's what it is) have to have occurred in the original version. For example, the augment virus infecting the Klingons is what lead to them looking the way they did in TOS.

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I came across an idea pitched by Mike Sussman which could possibly have been a better send-off for the show. It also would've said in the credits: And Special Guest Leonard Nimoy as "Ambassador Spock." Here were Sussman's exact words: "We could find Spock in the 24th century, a distinguished and retired Ambassador, who has a young visitor. Maybe this guy is a Vulcan/Human hybrid like Spock, and needs advice on balancing his two alien halves. This visit could lead Spock into recounting an adventure he had early in his career as a Starfleet cadet. This adventure could involve Young Spock (played by another actor) helping a middle-aged T'Pol (now in her early to mid-100's) on some vitally important mission.... In the process, Spock could learn some lesson which helped him choose his own path in life. We may learn a lot of new info on Spock.... Perhaps he was torn between life as a diplomat (like his father) and a career in Starfleet when he was a young man. The flashback adventure should involve Captain Archer (and other members of our cast) in old-age make-up, playing early 23rd century versions of themselves. Maybe their adventure is something of a 'Last Round-Up' for the old crew, whom T'Pol reunites for a secret and possibly illegal TBD mission. I thought it might be fun if our crew have to steal an antiquated NX-class ship from the Starfleet museum for one last adventure together." This story is the one that would've been worthy of the title These Are The Voyages... and a more logical way to end this chapter in Star Trek history. "If only..."

5a7b30428a5bc_SpockPrime.jpg.3bc9969efce9d2f57d55daf24005e71c.jpg

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Live Long And Prosper."

Leonard Nimoy (1931-2015)

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First, welcome to the board and post a'plenty.

Second, I would have loved that as a finale rather than the joke we were given.

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34 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

First, welcome to the board and post a'plenty.

Second, I would have loved that as a finale rather than the joke we were given.

I heartily concur with this. 

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My ideas on this were posted long ago on TW and other places. I agree. The Riker's holodeck scenes were clearly altered and not part of canon, even by Barcley, or Riker himself. In my original idea, if they were going to use Riker and Troi, I would have made it on the Titan circa 2383, and made a trow away line to the effect of Barcley 'messing with his program' to make it more to his liking, and Trip's death would not only have never been, but Riker being there would have never been, and also, the Romu.an wars messed with the archives over the years, some other line, indicating they don't have an 'accurate version of events' on file.

The relaunch novels are head canon. Trip is not dead. The holodeck was messed with.

I would have started off in the early stages of this show with the Romulan wars, and showed that, not the Xindi. Retro-tech makes some sense actually later on.

And they kept saying 'Valentine to the Fans' all the fourth season. More like a Dear John letter.

And why not have Archer's speech to the Federation?

"Ladies, gentlemen and extended guests from the stars, welcome to the inaugural meeting of the United Space Probe Agency, or to which we will call the Federation of Planets someday. Our new mission will be to create a scientific and exploratory branch of Starfleet, which heretofore will go out into the galaxy in peace. To qupte Zepham Cochrane 80 years ago. We will explore strange new worlds, and find new civilizations, and boldly we will go, where no man, humanoid or alien, has gone...before. Thank you, and Godspeed."

Just paraphrasing what could have been there, still gives me the warm fuzzies. Why not play the speech? It's an ode to the fans.

Also the speech would have been a great bookend to the pilot, Broken Bow, and then hope for the future.

Edited by Chimera82405

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2 minutes ago, Chimera82405 said:

And why not have Archer's speech to the Federation?

 

Because it would have had to soar.

It would have had to make your heart burst with pride and make you weep that this dream is part of a television show and you will never live to see it.

Only Aaron Sorkin could have pulled that off. And since he wasn't on the payroll.....

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3 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

Because it would have had to soar.

It would have had to make your heart burst with pride and make you weep that this dream is part of a television show and you will never live to see it.

Only Aaron Sorkin could have pulled that off. And since he wasn't on the payroll.....

He was on The West Wing staff at time time.

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4 minutes ago, Chimera82405 said:

He was on The West Wing staff at time time.

No, he wasn't. He left The West Wing in 2003.

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4 hours ago, Capt. M.J. Tiber said:

I came across an idea pitched by Mike Sussman which could possibly have been a better send-off for the show. It also would've said in the credits: And Special Guest Leonard Nimoy as "Ambassador Spock." Here were Sussman's exact words: "We could find Spock in the 24th century, a distinguished and retired Ambassador, who has a young visitor. Maybe this guy is a Vulcan/Human hybrid like Spock, and needs advice on balancing his two alien halves. This visit could lead Spock into recounting an adventure he had early in his career as a Starfleet cadet. This adventure could involve Young Spock (played by another actor) helping a middle-aged T'Pol (now in her early to mid-100's) on some vitally important mission.... In the process, Spock could learn some lesson which helped him choose his own path in life. We may learn a lot of new info on Spock.... Perhaps he was torn between life as a diplomat (like his father) and a career in Starfleet when he was a young man. The flashback adventure should involve Captain Archer (and other members of our cast) in old-age make-up, playing early 23rd century versions of themselves. Maybe their adventure is something of a 'Last Round-Up' for the old crew, whom T'Pol reunites for a secret and possibly illegal TBD mission. I thought it might be fun if our crew have to steal an antiquated NX-class ship from the Starfleet museum for one last adventure together." This story is the one that would've been worthy of the title These Are The Voyages... and a more logical way to end this chapter in Star Trek history. "If only..."

5a7b30428a5bc_SpockPrime.jpg.3bc9969efce9d2f57d55daf24005e71c.jpg

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Live Long And Prosper."

Leonard Nimoy (1931-2015)

Welcome to Trekcore/Omega Sector!
Post Often and Prosper.

Love the Nimoy pic and the quote!  ;)

 

And as far as I’m concerned?  Almost any story is better than “These Are The Voyages...”   For me, ENT officially ended with “Terra Prime”; a far better series finale IMO.

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