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GustavoLeao

STAR TREK V - Rare Photos

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If his answer isn't "because I directed it" then I doubt I will give it much credence...

The correct answer is:

"It was a terminally flawed story I never should have even tried to shoot, even if I could've gotten the rock men I wanted."

It stuns me how much emphasis he places on that ending sequence, even all these years later...as though THAT was the film's biggest problem.

Harve Bennett nailed it when he said in an old CFQ magazine that the premise is the flaw, not so much the execution. 

The problem is that it's a movie about going to see God that fails to see God.   And more fundamentally, the audience KNOWS it won't be seeing God because you won't see God in a movie.  It's as simple as that.   It's a ill-conceived premise given a lackluster execution.  Yes, Shatner's direction is a another big chunk of the movie's problems (he wasted a lot of money on big would-be Lawrence of Arabia-type 'money shots' at the beginning of the movie, and it left him bankrupt at the finish line... even he admits it was a rookie mistake).   Not to mention that the screenplay is childish, with the characters acting like buffoonish parodies of themselves (Scotty banging his head on the pipe, Chekov and Sulu literally lost in the woods, Uhura's fan dance, etc.   I mean, is this Star Trek, or McHale's Navy?).

Yes, Shatner (as co-author of the story) deserves a lot of blame, but I also blame the studio (and Harve Bennett) for giving Shatner the green light for such a dreadful idea (which is really little more than a big budget remake of "Way To Eden"). 

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Not to mention that the screenplay is childish, with the characters acting like buffoonish parodies of themselves (Scotty banging his head on the pipe, Chekov and Sulu literally lost in the woods, Uhura's fan dance, etc.   I mean, is this Star Trek, or McHale's Navy?).

Yes, Shatner (as co-author of the story) deserves a lot of blame, but I also blame the studio (and Harve Bennett) for giving Shatner the green light for such a dreadful idea (which is really little more than a big budget remake of "Way To Eden"). 

Yup.

And, as you point out, "The Way to Eden" doesn't come off like a twelve year-old wrote it.

Fart jokes?? Really? 

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Not to mention that the screenplay is childish, with the characters acting like buffoonish parodies of themselves (Scotty banging his head on the pipe, Chekov and Sulu literally lost in the woods, Uhura's fan dance, etc.   I mean, is this Star Trek, or McHale's Navy?).

Yes, Shatner (as co-author of the story) deserves a lot of blame, but I also blame the studio (and Harve Bennett) for giving Shatner the green light for such a dreadful idea (which is really little more than a big budget remake of "Way To Eden"). 

Yup.

And, as you point out, "The Way to Eden" doesn't come off like a twelve year-old wrote it.

Fart jokes?? Really? 

I'd take Adam and the Space Hippies over the groan-worthy one-liners in STV any day of the week... 

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Not to mention that the screenplay is childish, with the characters acting like buffoonish parodies of themselves (Scotty banging his head on the pipe, Chekov and Sulu literally lost in the woods, Uhura's fan dance, etc.   I mean, is this Star Trek, or McHale's Navy?).

Yes, Shatner (as co-author of the story) deserves a lot of blame, but I also blame the studio (and Harve Bennett) for giving Shatner the green light for such a dreadful idea (which is really little more than a big budget remake of "Way To Eden"). 

Yup.

And, as you point out, "The Way to Eden" doesn't come off like a twelve year-old wrote it.

Fart jokes?? Really? 

I'd take Adam and the Space Hippies over the groan-worthy one-liners in STV any day of the week... 

"Eden" was ridiculous on many levels, but it at least tried to say something about technology v. nature. TFF, in some quest for God that you know won't be God because the movie simply wouldn't dare, worries about the wrong things.

It would have been better served, IMHO, if Shatner were somehow dead set on that story, that he just turn the whole thing into a bottle episode character study of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, and, to a lesser extent Spock and Sybok as the crew really works to retake the ship before Sybok can fly them through the barrier. (Sort of a soft version of Die Hard without, you know, things like an aging Kirk hammer-punching eight men) 

Then you can have all the talk about God and relationships that you want all the way through without this unrealistic expectation at the end that everyone knows you won't meet because you don't have the guts to do it because you don't want to tick off half the world with, "Here's God. Really."

But Shatner thought that had to be the payoff, and the entire film suffers for it.

There are bits there already that work, it's just lost in the quest that can never be realized, so stop trying to make that the crux of your film.

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I looooooooooooooooooooooooove STAR TREK !

Yeah, I love STAR TREK V, but I agree with Shatner, that movie needed ILM more than any other Trek movie at the time, not that crap FX from Bran Ferren. And a bigger budget !

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I looooooooooooooooooooooooove STAR TREK !

Yeah, I love STAR TREK V, but I agree with Shatner, that movie needed ILM more than any other Trek movie at the time, not that crap FX from Bran Ferren. And a bigger budget !

It would've looked better sure, but it wouldn't fix the fundamental problems with the story.   

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There is no fundamental problems with the script.

Its a great entry on Trek canon which discusses faith, personal pain, loss and mortality more than any other STAR TREK movie at the time.

It captured the essence and friendship of THE ORIGINAL SERIES giving it a feel of a 60s TV series script.

Great themes, great script. Paramount would never greenlight a script like that one today.

Gus

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I'm very glad that you like it, but I still think it's fundamentally flawed because, unlike the other times similar plots were hashed (TMP, for one,) you know going in that the plot can't really be resolved; they'll never find God.

 Paramount would never greenlight a script like that one today.

And I thank V'Ger for that every day. :P

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I'm very glad that you like it, but I still think it's fundamentally flawed because, unlike the other times similar plots were hashed (TMP, for one,) you know going in that the plot can't really be resolved; they'll never find God.

 Paramount would never greenlight a script like that one today.

And I thank V'Ger for that every day. :P

V'ger... boldly going where Nomad has gone before.  :P

 

But yes, the fundamental issue with STV is that it's fixed before you see the opening reel.  You'll never 'find god' in a Star Trek movie.  Period.   So that's a non-starter.   Where do you go from there?   A few 'religion-lite' conversations about god being 'in the human heart' and that's it.   

I realize you (Gus) feel tremendous passion for the movie, and I understand (like my soft spot for GEN), but it's still a flawed movie (so is my beloved GEN).  One can acknowledge a thing's flaws and not necessarily fall out of love with it.    Deconstruction isn't the same as hate.

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Like STID.

I absolutely acknowledge every problem with it.

It still works for me at the end of the day, though I do pretend that Quinto screaming "Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnn!!!!!" never happened.

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Like STID.

I absolutely acknowledge every problem with it.

It still works for me at the end of the day, though I do pretend that Quinto screaming "Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnn!!!!!" never happened.

giphy.gif

For me, the fingers in my ears start when Kirk says "Ship out of danger?" :giggle:

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