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GustavoLeao

Alien Covenant

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Right. The Erich von Daniken / Chariots of the Gods thing is completely grafted on. It wasn't necessary.

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3 hours ago, Robin Bland said:

Right. The Erich von Daniken / Chariots of the Gods thing is completely grafted on. It wasn't necessary.

Damn von Daniken again... (now, try saying that that ten times as fast... :giggle: ).

And Chariots of the Gods... oh man, I remember EVERYBODY in the '70s was into that book, and the documentary.   Think even my mother had a copy. "Prometheus" kind of feels like a big-budget, glossier redux of all that von Daniken pseudoscientific nonsense.  

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5 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Damn von Daniken again... (now, try saying that that ten times as fast... :giggle: ).

And Chariots of the Gods... oh man, I remember EVERYBODY in the '70s was into that book, and the documentary.   Think even my mother had a copy. "Prometheus" kind of feels like a big-budget, glossier redux of all that von Daniken pseudoscientific nonsense.  

It seems pretty likely that Scott's idea of the "creators" was inspired by von Daniken.

To paraphrase Alan Moore, the quality of your ideas depends on where you steal them from.

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4 hours ago, Robin Bland said:

Apparently Sir Ridders does listen. Or wants us to believe he does. Or something.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/ridley-scott-admits-fan-backlash-over-prometheus-influe-1795126523

 

Like "Ridders" (hehe), I am of two minds when it comes to creative endeavors that are part of greater franchises; you should listen to the fans to an extent.  After all, this is pop culture and these things ARE made for mass consumption.  However...an artist also has to be able to express their art or they're little more than a short-order cook, right?

The trick is the compromise; give a little bit to the fans, listen to some of their ideas (they are your support, after all) but bear in mind that it is, ultimately, YOUR creative endeavor (I'm saying this to the imaginary Sir Ridley Scott who is nowhere near this thread, I'm sure...hehe).

This is also one of the problems with creating something so perfect-out-of-the-box as his first ALIEN movie...just how the hell do you FOLLOW that??  Talk about performance anxiety.  I applaud Sir Ridley for the ambition for Prometheus; however misguided.  I don't know what to expect from Covenant exactly, but everything I've seen of it tells me that he might've compromised TOO much.  It's looks like more of the same, and if that's the case, it's disappointing; sad to see such a unique cinematic voice become a short-order cook. :(

I just can't shake the feeling that the ALIEN franchise should've been left alone after the 2nd movie.  Everything since (IMO, at least) hasn't really been all that worthwhile, and much of it (esp the AVP movies) have only served to sully ALIEN's overall reputation.

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12 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Like "Ridders" (hehe), I am of two minds when it comes to creative endeavors that are part of greater franchises; you should listen to the fans to an extent.  After all, this is pop culture and these things ARE made for mass consumption.  However...an artist also has to be able to express their art or they're little more than a short-order cook, right?

The trick is the compromise; give a little bit to the fans, listen to some of their ideas (they are your support, after all) but bear in mind that it is, ultimately, YOUR creative endeavor (I'm saying this to the imaginary Sir Ridley Scott who is nowhere near this thread, I'm sure...hehe).

This is also one of the problems with creating something so perfect-out-of-the-box as his first ALIEN movie...just how the hell do you FOLLOW that??  Talk about performance anxiety.  I applaud Sir Ridley for the ambition for Prometheus; however misguided.  I don't know what to expect from Covenant exactly, but everything I've seen of it tells me that he might've compromised TOO much.  It's looks like more of the same, and if that's the case, it's disappointing; sad to see such a unique cinematic voice become a short-order cook. :(

I just can't shake the feeling that the ALIEN franchise should've been left alone after the 2nd movie.  Everything since (IMO, at least) hasn't really been all that worthwhile, and much of it (esp the AVP movies) have only served to sully ALIEN's overall reputation.

Can't argue with any of that. Ridders is an amazing talent, gifted almost beyond compare, but he just isn't a writer. His storytelling is visual, emotional and at that he excels like no-one else. The original film is his ultimate vehicle - simple, with philosophical underpinnings and an operatic sense of mystery. As soon as he attempted to expand the mysteries by explaining them, the whole thing falls apart. 

In my mind, I know what to do with the ALIEN franchise, but they're not going to listen to me as I'm just an anonymous poster on a message board. In a sense, I think the series has stymied itself by believing it has to fulfil various expectations which have become ever more formulaic. As we've said, many times - that's missing the point. Yes, you absolutely do need the scares but no, we don't need to broaden the scope in terms of learning more about the beasties' origins. Or ours - all that Erich von Daniken stuff. We just need to know how they continue to affect human society - colonists, homeworlds, more spaceships, whatever. If anything, exploring the mysteries of their beginnings is absolutely the wrong approach. Deepen the mystery, never explain it. Introduce more mysteries. Don't have the Space Jockeys be big Moebius-inspired humanoids. Have a human colony form a religion based on the ALIEN life cycle. Also happy to go along with a Weyland Yutani HQ takedown. Might be fun to see the capitalist corporate bastard types finally get their hands on what they wanted, and start with them being really smug about it as they talk about how terribly their former (dead) employees handled these space creatures on many previous occasions. Then they find out in no uncertain terms how these things go. Could be the first genuinely hilarious ALIEN film. 

There's so much you could do, or could've done, all of which would've been directions that would've kept the franchise going in interesting directions without losing the coherence and mystery of the first two films. (For all its flaws, I'd personally include the director's cut of the third film, but I get why people don't.) 

Edited by Robin Bland

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7 hours ago, Robin Bland said:

Can't argue with any of that. Ridders is an amazing talent, gifted almost beyond compare, but he just isn't a writer. His storytelling is visual, emotional and at that he excels like no-one else. The original film is his ultimate vehicle - simple, with philosophical underpinnings and an operatic sense of mystery. As soon as he attempted to expand the mysteries by explaining them, the whole thing falls apart. 

In my mind, I know what to do with the ALIEN franchise, but they're not going to listen to me as I'm just an anonymous poster on a message board. In a sense, I think the series has stymied itself by believing it has to fulfil various expectations which have become ever more formulaic. As we've said, many times - that's missing the point. Yes, you absolutely do need the scares but no, we don't need to broaden the scope in terms of learning more about the beasties' origins. Or ours - all that Erich von Daniken stuff. We just need to know how they continue to affect human society - colonists, homeworlds, more spaceships, whatever. If anything, exploring the mysteries of their beginnings is absolutely the wrong approach. Deepen the mystery, never explain it. Introduce more mysteries. Don't have the Space Jockeys be big Moebius-inspired humanoids. Have a human colony form a religion based on the ALIEN life cycle. Also happy to go along with a Weyland Yutani HQ takedown. Might be fun to see the capitalist corporate bastard types finally get their hands on what they wanted, and start with them being really smug about it as they talk about how terribly their former (dead) employees handled these space creatures on many previous occasions. Then they find out in no uncertain terms how these things go. Could be the first genuinely hilarious ALIEN film. 

There's so much you could do, or could've done, all of which would've been directions that would've kept the franchise going in interesting directions without losing the coherence and mystery of the first two films. (For all its flaws, I'd personally include the director's cut of the third film, but I get why people don't.) 

^
Any one of those ideas are better than most of the sequels or the AVP movies...

What if ALIEN3 had Ripley crash on a planet where the aforementioned religious cult were based?  How would THEY treat the person carrying an alien queen?  It'd be a helluva lot more interesting than a bunch of generic convicts, I'm sure...

And yes, I've sort of had a mental head-canon version of an ALIEN sequel where we see the inner workings of Weyland-Yutani when they finally get their greedy mitts on an actual xenomorph; I agree that seeing the suits flail about while their own ranks are thinned could be hysterical (I'm reminded of the first part of last year's "Shin Godzilla"). 

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On 5/12/2017 at 8:57 AM, Sehlat Vie said:

^
Any one of those ideas are better than most of the sequels or the AVP movies...

What if ALIEN3 had Ripley crash on a planet where the aforementioned religious cult were based?  How would THEY treat the person carrying an alien queen?  It'd be a helluva lot more interesting than a bunch of generic convicts, I'm sure...

And yes, I've sort of had a mental head-canon version of an ALIEN sequel where we see the inner workings of Weyland-Yutani when they finally get their greedy mitts on an actual xenomorph; I agree that seeing the suits flail about while their own ranks are thinned could be hysterical (I'm reminded of the first part of last year's "Shin Godzilla"). 

Bringing a satirical element to ALIEN would be quite a timely thing to do, and you could do it without subverting the essential ingredients of a good chiller. It'd work, I think. There's a little of that in Cameron's Aliens, after all, with Carter Burke. 

I'm pretty sure we could break storm a bunch of viable sequels in day, all of which would be less expensive and less tiresome than all of the recent entries in this franchise. 

1 hour ago, Nombrecomun said:

I read the plot on Wikipedia. Definitely not going to see this in the theater. 

I'm beginning to think I may not bother, either. 

After all, there's nothing like banging your head against a brick wall and then realizing you have the free will to stop. 

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52 minutes ago, GustavoLeao said:

ALIEN COVENANT Bombs at the International Box Office ???

Alien: Covenant Opens Internationally with $42 Million Box Office

Gus

Aside from "Prometheus" international box office (which the article cites), I wonder how the ALIEN movies have traditionally done overseas?  A guess a trip to BoxOfficeMojo is in my future... :laugh:

PS: After a quick look at boxofficemojo.com, it appears that there is a pattern; the first two ALIEN movies did about twice as much business domestically, while the latter two movies did twice as well internationally.  Prometheus merely continued the trend of the last two movies in the ALIEN franchise by performing better overseas.  

Covenant sounds like it might be (emphasis on might) either a regression towards the first two films' business (doing better in the US) or... it might just be an actual box office dud.  Then again, it's been only a week, and I hate to be the one calling box office after a single weekend.   Movies are pop art, not sporting events.

I plan to see it eventually, as I still have Christmas movie passes burning a hole in my pocket, but to be honest?  I'm in no great hurry...

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$6.4 million for the UK sounds incredibly low.

Unsurprised here, also. If there's one part of their lives where human beings refuse to be idiots, it's in their consumption of entertainment.  It's the only area where they demand evolution and know all the tricks.

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2 hours ago, Robin Bland said:

$6.4 million for the UK sounds incredibly low.

Unsurprised here, also. If there's one part of their lives where human beings refuse to be idiots, it's in their consumption of entertainment.  It's the only area where they demand evolution and know all the tricks.

^
Yes, and it's either absolutely perfect or they burn the house down...:laugh:

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2 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

^
Yes, and it's either absolutely perfect or they burn the house down...:laugh:

Or eat the aliens... :laugh:

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8 hours ago, Robin Bland said:

Or eat the aliens... :laugh:

Better take an antacid first... :giggle:

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1 hour ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Better take an antacid first... :giggle:

Not if you roast them and bleed all that pesky stuff out first (which you can use later for hot sauce). 

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1 hour ago, Robin Bland said:

Not if you roast them and bleed all that pesky stuff out first (which you can use later for hot sauce). 

Hot 'n Spicy xenomorphs, now on the menu at Chez-LIEN. :laugh:

 

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Perfect representation of the actual movie tho, I assume. :P

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19 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

Perfect representation of the actual movie tho, I assume. :P

You mean Ferpect. :P

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2 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

You mean Ferpect. :P

rySor :P

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