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GustavoLeao

Alien Covenant

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Good morning - bom dia !
 
Fox has just announced that Ridley Scott's follow up to Prometheus will actually be titled Alien: Covenant (formerly "Paradise Lost"), and ComicBookMovie.com have a title treatment and synopsis to go along with its October 2017 release date reveal. (Beware of possible spoilers)
 
 
 

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Sounds like it's not a direct sequel to Prometheus, then. Whatever he does, he'll have to do a lot of good storytelling to gloss over the mess that was that movie. 

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Sounds like it's not a direct sequel to Prometheus, then. Whatever he does, he'll have to do a lot of good storytelling to gloss over the mess that was that movie. 

A tall order.

Prometheus was the most beautiful looking hot mess I've ever seen.  I wanted to love it so badly.  And it's still worth owning on blu ray if you just look at the imagery, as I do.   Once I hear the plot/dialogue, it's ruined...

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kenman   

Still intrigued. Prometheus didn't annoy me as much as it clearly annoyed others...because at least for a big blockbuster movie it tried something (even if it didn't really succeed at most of it).  It was a mess, but I've seen so much worse lately. 

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Still intrigued. Prometheus didn't annoy me as much as it clearly annoyed others...because at least for a big blockbuster movie it tried something (even if it didn't really succeed at most of it).  It was a mess, but I've seen so much worse lately. 

It's just maddening that the characters were supposed to be 'top scientists' in their field but they show all the common sense of teenage counselors at Camp Crystal Lake.  

Not to mention that the movie raises about a million questions but answers NONE of them (Lindelof-the-lazy-scripter strikes back).   

I'm all for a bit of ambiguity in my science fiction ("Solaris" and "2001" are favorites of mine) but this was just deliberate, 'sorry-folks-we-got-nothing' screenwriting.   I realize they were setting it up for the 'big bad sequel', but that just reduces the movie to a trailer for a better movie down the road (which sounds like it won't happen now).  

Imagine if the original ALIEN held everything back for ALIENS?

 

The only really good things I can say about Prometheus are this:

* David the Android was by far the most interesting character

* The visuals are some of the most beautiful in a recent science fiction film; Ridley Scott hasn't lost his touch when it comes to imagery ("The Martian" further bears this out).  Prometheus is Scott's best looking movie since "Blade Runner."

* It's nice that a science fiction movie isn't about guys flying around beating up armies of robots. 

 

 

 

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That's a bummer. I've had enough of the Aliens for a while. It would have been refreshing to go elsewhere since it seemed like that was Scott's original intent with Prometheus. I wonder what changed. 

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That's a bummer. I've had enough of the Aliens for a while. It would have been refreshing to go elsewhere since it seemed like that was Scott's original intent with Prometheus. I wonder what changed. 

Prometheus underperformed.

Not our same-named member here at OS, but the movie...:P

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Still intrigued. Prometheus didn't annoy me as much as it clearly annoyed others...because at least for a big blockbuster movie it tried something (even if it didn't really succeed at most of it).  It was a mess, but I've seen so much worse lately. 

It's just maddening that the characters were supposed to be 'top scientists' in their field but they show all the common sense of teenage counselors at Camp Crystal Lake.  

Not to mention that the movie raises about a million questions but answers NONE of them (Lindelof-the-lazy-scripter strikes back).   

I'm all for a bit of ambiguity in my science fiction ("Solaris" and "2001" are favorites of mine) but this was just deliberate, 'sorry-folks-we-got-nothing' screenwriting.   I realize they were setting it up for the 'big bad sequel', but that just reduces the movie to a trailer for a better movie down the road (which sounds like it won't happen now).  

Imagine if the original ALIEN held everything back for ALIENS?

 

The only really good things I can say about Prometheus are this:

* David the Android was by far the most interesting character

* The visuals are some of the most beautiful in a recent science fiction film; Ridley Scott hasn't lost his touch when it comes to imagery ("The Martian" further bears this out).  Prometheus is Scott's best looking movie since "Blade Runner."

* It's nice that a science fiction movie isn't about guys flying around beating up armies of robots. 

 

 

 

There ARE some great things about that film, all mostly to do with the way that it looked, and having Fassbender do his quiet psycho thing. But if you compare it with the original ALIEN, which is fundamentally a very simple tale beautifully told, Prometheus falls into all the traps a storyteller of Scott's experience and calibre should know to avoid. And yeah, Lindelhof, while not known for tying up loose threads (hello, LOST!) sems to be responding to a lot of Scott's own ideas on the blu-ray docu, so I don't hold him entirely to blame. 

I just really don't want or need another Prometheus, is all. 

That's a bummer. I've had enough of the Aliens for a while. It would have been refreshing to go elsewhere since it seemed like that was Scott's original intent with Prometheus. I wonder what changed. 

Prometheus underperformed.

Not our same-named member here at OS, but the movie...:P

But Scott has the power to make Alien Covenant happen anyway. 

Edited by Robin Bland

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But Scott has the power to make Alien Covenant happen anyway. 

I'm guessing the recent wild success of "The Martian" (#1 movie for most of October and part of November) might've been a factor...  

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But Scott has the power to make Alien Covenant happen anyway. 

I'm guessing the recent wild success of "The Martian" (#1 movie for most of October and part of November) might've been a factor...  

Has to be, right? And The Martian, which you know I loved, proved to me that Scott is basically as good as his screenplay. He can make anything look incredible, he understands emotional beats, he understands better than almost anybody how to bring it all together, but he's not a writer

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Sim   

Still intrigued. Prometheus didn't annoy me as much as it clearly annoyed others...because at least for a big blockbuster movie it tried something (even if it didn't really succeed at most of it).  It was a mess, but I've seen so much worse lately. 

Same for me.

I had heard so many devastating critiques on Prometheus before I watched it, so that my expectations had been so low that Prometheus managed to entertain me. I felt it's nowhere as good as the Alien movies (well, Alien3 is not exactly brilliant either, but apples and oranges), but it was okay on the bottom line. Though I had expected someone like Scott do better.

So yes, I'm still intrigued, too. :)

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But Scott has the power to make Alien Covenant happen anyway. 

I'm guessing the recent wild success of "The Martian" (#1 movie for most of October and part of November) might've been a factor...  

Has to be, right? And The Martian, which you know I loved, proved to me that Scott is basically as good as his screenplay. He can make anything look incredible, he understands emotional beats, he understands better than almost anybody how to bring it all together, but he's not a writer

This is very true; he is a visual filmmaker.   In that regard, he reminds me of a much-polished JJ Abrams.   Both put tremendous visuals into their movies, both are excellent showmen, but both also have had difficulties recognizing an inadequate script before shooting began.

And yes, "The Martian" was a dream realized for me; it's as faithful an adaptation as one could hope for.  It was pretty much my mind's-eye vision of the book when I read it last June.  I've seen it twice already, and my wife and I have talked of seeing it a 3rd time (in IMAX, if possible) before it goes to blu ray.

That movie firmly put Ridley back in the driver's seat.   In the crazy movie industry, even a legend like Scott is only as powerful as his last movie...

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But Scott has the power to make Alien Covenant happen anyway. 

I'm guessing the recent wild success of "The Martian" (#1 movie for most of October and part of November) might've been a factor...  

Has to be, right? And The Martian, which you know I loved, proved to me that Scott is basically as good as his screenplay. He can make anything look incredible, he understands emotional beats, he understands better than almost anybody how to bring it all together, but he's not a writer

This is very true; he is a visual filmmaker.   In that regard, he reminds me of a much-polished JJ Abrams.   Both put tremendous visuals into their movies, both are excellent showmen, but both also have had difficulties recognizing an inadequate script before shooting began.

And yes, "The Martian" was a dream realized for me; it's as faithful an adaptation as one could hope for.  It was pretty much my mind's-eye vision of the book when I read it last June.  I've seen it twice already, and my wife and I have talked of seeing it a 3rd time (in IMAX, if possible) before it goes to blu ray.

That movie firmly put Ridley back in the driver's seat.   In the crazy movie industry, even a legend like Scott is only as powerful as his last movie...

Scott is incredible - I'm definitely a fan. But the disappointment of Prometheus left a palpable mark on my ability to approach new ALIEN offerings without a sense of despondency. (I'll admit that is coloring my mood here - apologies to all if I'm seeming a bit more negative than usual.)  After the trash that was the ALIEN vs Predator movies, I'd hoped he'd restore a sense of operatic scope and class to the franchise. Instead we got an extremely pretty film whose script was a mish-mash of half-baked ideas and a bunch of characters out of a particularly shoddy teen slasher flick. Oh, and Hal 9000 in Michael Fassbender's body - that was the one good idea. 

I guess I'll see it whatever happens - ALIEN happens to be one of my favorite films of all time and the anthropologist in me will want to see what its descendants are. Even if it's a disapponting experience. 

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But Scott has the power to make Alien Covenant happen anyway. 

I'm guessing the recent wild success of "The Martian" (#1 movie for most of October and part of November) might've been a factor...  

Has to be, right? And The Martian, which you know I loved, proved to me that Scott is basically as good as his screenplay. He can make anything look incredible, he understands emotional beats, he understands better than almost anybody how to bring it all together, but he's not a writer

This is very true; he is a visual filmmaker.   In that regard, he reminds me of a much-polished JJ Abrams.   Both put tremendous visuals into their movies, both are excellent showmen, but both also have had difficulties recognizing an inadequate script before shooting began.

And yes, "The Martian" was a dream realized for me; it's as faithful an adaptation as one could hope for.  It was pretty much my mind's-eye vision of the book when I read it last June.  I've seen it twice already, and my wife and I have talked of seeing it a 3rd time (in IMAX, if possible) before it goes to blu ray.

That movie firmly put Ridley back in the driver's seat.   In the crazy movie industry, even a legend like Scott is only as powerful as his last movie...

Scott is incredible - I'm definitely a fan. But the disappointment of Prometheus left a palpable mark on my ability to approach new ALIEN offerings without a sense of despondency. (I'll admit that is coloring my mood here - apologies to all if I'm seeming a bit more negative than usual.)  After the trash that was the ALIEN vs Predator movies, I'd hoped he'd restore a sense of operatic scope and class to the franchise. Instead we got an extremely pretty film whose script was a mish-mash of half-baked ideas and a bunch of characters out of a particularly shoddy teen slasher flick. Oh, and Hal 9000 in Michael Fassbender's body - that was the one good idea. 

I guess I'll see it whatever happens - ALIEN happens to be one of my favorite films of all time and the anthropologist in me will want to see what its descendants are. Even if it's a disapponting experience. 

^
Exactly where I'm at; I love ALIEN, and I 
still believe in the concept.   But two lackluster sequels (3 & 4) and the disposable AVP movies (they're utter garbage) had me doubting if we'd ever really see another quality ALIEN movie.  

But there's always hope; and we scifi fans do tend to be an optimistic lot, so.... ;)

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kenman   

Here's the thing.  All the Alien movies have the essentially the same plot...just different approaches by different filmmakers.  I love the first one, I like the second and third (despite it's flaws there is a lot I like in Fincher's film), and I didn't really enjoy the fourth one.  But they all cover the same ground. Prometheus did try something new in terms of what it was doing, it just never truly put all the elements together. 

It didn't really need a sequel, but it keeps getting some. I don't think it really has all that much plot and story or ideas to warrant all these sequels.  It's not that big a concept.  Alien is a really great film, a top notch one in fact, but it's a really fantastically executed monster/slasher movie in space!  It doesn't really have that many ideas that need explored.  If anything the failures of Prometheus proved that.  Aliens was the same movie in different clothes, as were the other two.  That doesn't make them bad, I just don't think there is so much to explore that we need a convoluted backstory to explain how this Alien came to be.

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Here's the thing.  All the Alien movies have the essentially the same plot...just different approaches by different filmmakers.  I love the first one, I like the second and third (despite it's flaws there is a lot I like in Fincher's film), and I didn't really enjoy the fourth one.  But they all cover the same ground. Prometheus did try something new in terms of what it was doing, it just never truly put all the elements together. 

It didn't really need a sequel, but it keeps getting some. I don't think it really has all that much plot and story or ideas to warrant all these sequels.  It's not that big a concept.  Alien is a really great film, a top notch one in fact, but it's a really fantastically executed monster/slasher movie in space!  It doesn't really have that many ideas that need explored.  If anything the failures of Prometheus proved that.  Aliens was the same movie in different clothes, as were the other two.  That doesn't make them bad, I just don't think there is so much to explore that we need a convoluted backstory to explain how this Alien came to be.

^
This makes much sense, in that ALIEN is (as much as I love it) a 1950s monster-loose-on-the-spaceship B-movie, but with a huge coating of gloss and finesse.   ALIENS was the only one of the sequels that genuinely added to the ALIEN universe; the first movie was a haunted spaceship, the second was Vietnam.  A different kind of horror movie; the roller coaster ride in contrast the the original's spook house. 

But all of the sequels afterward were largely just rehashes of the same B-movie formula of the first one; a monster on the loose on a spaceship, research ship, prison colony, etc.  They were all remakes of ALIEN and not much more.   There really isn't much more to tell really, as ALIEN was a deceptively complex but truly simple idea.  That's part of the genius of it, and it's also one of the reasons why the sequels keep failing.   They're trying to tell more of a story where there really isn't one (with ALIENS being the lone exception, IMO).

That said?  I will probably watch out of brand name loyalty (I put up with other inferior ALIEN movies; what's another going to hurt?  Haha), and because I'm an absolute sucker for Ridley Scott's science fiction movies; even the worst of them (looking at you, Prometheus) is usually a visual feast.   I'll just keep my expectations low and remind myself that I'm seeing a movie that's really nothing more than a beautifully updated '50s science fiction B-movie...

 

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kenman   

Here's the thing.  All the Alien movies have the essentially the same plot...just different approaches by different filmmakers.  I love the first one, I like the second and third (despite it's flaws there is a lot I like in Fincher's film), and I didn't really enjoy the fourth one.  But they all cover the same ground. Prometheus did try something new in terms of what it was doing, it just never truly put all the elements together. 

It didn't really need a sequel, but it keeps getting some. I don't think it really has all that much plot and story or ideas to warrant all these sequels.  It's not that big a concept.  Alien is a really great film, a top notch one in fact, but it's a really fantastically executed monster/slasher movie in space!  It doesn't really have that many ideas that need explored.  If anything the failures of Prometheus proved that.  Aliens was the same movie in different clothes, as were the other two.  That doesn't make them bad, I just don't think there is so much to explore that we need a convoluted backstory to explain how this Alien came to be.

^
This makes much sense, in that ALIEN is (as much as I love it) a 1950s monster-loose-on-the-spaceship B-movie, but with a huge coating of gloss and finesse.   ALIENS was the only one of the sequels that genuinely added to the ALIEN universe; the first movie was a haunted spaceship, the second was Vietnam.  A different kind of horror movie; the roller coaster ride in contrast the the original's spook house. 

But all of the sequels afterward were largely just rehashes of the same B-movie formula of the first one; a monster on the loose on a spaceship, research ship, prison colony, etc.  They were all remakes of ALIEN and not much more.   There really isn't much more to tell really, as ALIEN was a deceptively complex but truly simple idea.  That's part of the genius of it, and it's also one of the reasons why the sequels keep failing.   They're trying to tell more of a story where there really isn't one (with ALIENS being the lone exception, IMO).

That said?  I will probably watch out of brand name loyalty (I put up with other inferior ALIEN movies; what's another going to hurt?  Haha), and because I'm an absolute sucker for Ridley Scott's science fiction movies; even the worst of them (looking at you, Prometheus) is usually a visual feast.   I'll just keep my expectations low and remind myself that I'm seeing a movie that's really nothing more than a beautifully updated '50s science fiction B-movie...

 

That's it really.  Even what Aliens added isn't much when you look at it.  It's a coat of Action movie paint on the same story (company wants the alien as a weapon and goes about getting it in nefarious ways, Ridley gets screwed by this plan).  The main difference is that there are more weapons and an action heavy tone.

I mean...I like "Aliens" don't get me wrong. I prefer the first one, but that first sequels is a solid movie, mostly because it genuinely tried a new angle on the same story.

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Here's the thing.  All the Alien movies have the essentially the same plot...just different approaches by different filmmakers.  I love the first one, I like the second and third (despite it's flaws there is a lot I like in Fincher's film), and I didn't really enjoy the fourth one.  But they all cover the same ground. Prometheus did try something new in terms of what it was doing, it just never truly put all the elements together. 

It didn't really need a sequel, but it keeps getting some. I don't think it really has all that much plot and story or ideas to warrant all these sequels.  It's not that big a concept.  Alien is a really great film, a top notch one in fact, but it's a really fantastically executed monster/slasher movie in space!  It doesn't really have that many ideas that need explored.  If anything the failures of Prometheus proved that.  Aliens was the same movie in different clothes, as were the other two.  That doesn't make them bad, I just don't think there is so much to explore that we need a convoluted backstory to explain how this Alien came to be.

^
This makes much sense, in that ALIEN is (as much as I love it) a 1950s monster-loose-on-the-spaceship B-movie, but with a huge coating of gloss and finesse.   ALIENS was the only one of the sequels that genuinely added to the ALIEN universe; the first movie was a haunted spaceship, the second was Vietnam.  A different kind of horror movie; the roller coaster ride in contrast the the original's spook house. 

But all of the sequels afterward were largely just rehashes of the same B-movie formula of the first one; a monster on the loose on a spaceship, research ship, prison colony, etc.  They were all remakes of ALIEN and not much more.   There really isn't much more to tell really, as ALIEN was a deceptively complex but truly simple idea.  That's part of the genius of it, and it's also one of the reasons why the sequels keep failing.   They're trying to tell more of a story where there really isn't one (with ALIENS being the lone exception, IMO).

That said?  I will probably watch out of brand name loyalty (I put up with other inferior ALIEN movies; what's another going to hurt?  Haha), and because I'm an absolute sucker for Ridley Scott's science fiction movies; even the worst of them (looking at you, Prometheus) is usually a visual feast.   I'll just keep my expectations low and remind myself that I'm seeing a movie that's really nothing more than a beautifully updated '50s science fiction B-movie...

 

That's it really.  Even what Aliens added isn't much when you look at it.  It's a coat of Action movie paint on the same story (company wants the alien as a weapon and goes about getting it in nefarious ways, Ridley gets screwed by this plan).  The main difference is that there are more weapons and an action heavy tone.

I mean...I like "Aliens" don't get me wrong. I prefer the first one, but that first sequels is a solid movie, mostly because it genuinely tried a new angle on the same story.

You're right in that ALIENS had the same objectives, but very different means of getting them.  It's almost a different genre than the first one.  I tend to think of the first movie as more of a horror picture, whereas the second is a solid war movie.   ALIENS was the last one of the franchise to truly do something different.   Like the Terminator franchise; the first two are the only ones to do anything meaningful with the story, and all of the subsequent sequels were just minor variations. 

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I'm putting this here for Prome 'cause he and I are super-big Fassbender fans:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/michael-fassbender-confirms-hell-be-pulling-double-duty-1788419595

 

Fassbender's android 'David' was one of the few things that really worked in "Prometheus"; nice to see that TPTB recognized him for it! :thumbup:

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I'm putting this here for Prome 'cause he and I are super-big Fassbender fans:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/michael-fassbender-confirms-hell-be-pulling-double-duty-1788419595

 

Fassbender's android 'David' was one of the few things that really worked in "Prometheus"; nice to see that TPTB recognized him for it! :thumbup:

He was far and away the best thing in that benighted film. So I'll be seeing ALIEN Covenant no matter what if Fassbender's so central to it. I just hope Scott repairs some of the elements that went so utterly awry with Prometheus.

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I'm putting this here for Prome 'cause he and I are super-big Fassbender fans:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/michael-fassbender-confirms-hell-be-pulling-double-duty-1788419595

 

Fassbender's android 'David' was one of the few things that really worked in "Prometheus"; nice to see that TPTB recognized him for it! :thumbup:

He was far and away the best thing in that benighted film. So I'll be seeing ALIEN Covenant no matter what if Fassbender's so central to it. I just hope Scott repairs some of the elements that went so utterly awry with Prometheus.

The movie was a mess, but not a mess that can't be untangled IMO.   There are creative ways to make a phoenix out of it.   Fassbender is one of the ways. 

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I'm putting this here for Prome 'cause he and I are super-big Fassbender fans:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/michael-fassbender-confirms-hell-be-pulling-double-duty-1788419595

 

Fassbender's android 'David' was one of the few things that really worked in "Prometheus"; nice to see that TPTB recognized him for it! :thumbup:

He was far and away the best thing in that benighted film. So I'll be seeing ALIEN Covenant no matter what if Fassbender's so central to it. I just hope Scott repairs some of the elements that went so utterly awry with Prometheus.

The movie was a mess, but not a mess that can't be untangled IMO.   There are creative ways to make a phoenix out of it.   Fassbender is one of the ways. 

I dunno if I'll ever get past the disappointment of the unimaginative and very mundane explanation that the Space Jockey was actually really a large bald dude in a spacesuit (and in my ALIEN universe, it isn't). Or indeed that the Aliens themselves are just the mechanism of an out-of-control weapons depot built by some despotic "creators" that saw humankind as a failed experiment. Some mysteries don't need explaining, and that was, IMHO, Scott's big mistake. He seemed to feel that everything that functioned as a mystery in the original ALIEN films needed explaining and fleshing out. Instead of provoking a new sense of awe and wonder, extending and expanding the mythology and the ALIEN universe, he just succeeded in closing off possibilities. The film looked gorgeous, but the story was drab. Prometheus wasn't the correct venue for abandoning ALIEN's industrial simplicity and believable characters in favor of meditations on humanity's place in the universe. Leave that to other franchises (such as Star Trek). I think if it had struck strictly to a man against nature theme, it'd all feel a little less like it was written by a 10th grader. Or a hack.

But if they can reframe that prequel story in a larger context, to make sense of all the sloppy plotting and stupid behavior of the characters, make the mystery opaque again, maybe there's a way to safely navigate a path past Prometheus. Yeah, I'll watch anything with Fassbender in - and he'll be what draws me to this. Plus, inevitably, it'll look great. I wouldn't say that I'm anxious - I stopped caring - and I'll be delighted if this turns out to be one of the better movies in the franchise. But the cynic in me is curious to see how much more Scott can mess up the ALIEN mythology.

 

Edited by Robin Bland

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