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GenesisDevice

Janeway and Paris' lizard babies

82 posts in this topic

Voyager does suck for the most part, but I think I and most people here, even if they dislike the show there are things in it that are palatable if not good. As for it being a personal attack, I certainly don't see it as such, mainly because it's a TV show and I'm just too damn old to get that emotionally invested in a TV show to where someone's, "You like that, you idiot?" affects me. I'm not attempting to diminish your own feelings, as you're entitled to them. I'm speaking only for me.

If it did I'd be curled up in a corner not very happy because DS9 is the red-headed stepchild of Trek that the vast majority of fandom doesn't care about. Hell, the producers of the show (Paramount/CBS) doesn't care about it. They don't celebrate it and never really did. I'm certain we'll see Voyager on Blu long before DS9. I have no trouble finding Voyager fans pretty much anywhere in the sci-fi realm that will happily defend it. DS9? Not so much.

When I started bashing DS9 in their sub-forum in retaliation, it doesn't go over well.

Why would it?

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And not tell her he had "children" with...lizards... or guppies, whichever one would blow her mind more.

Haha! Right?

I kind of wonder if this episode was trying to slip into parody territory at times.

Is this thread still about lizard babies and that terrible Threshold episode, or has it deteriorated into another bash Voyager thread?

tumblr_mm5uh7hWKn1r5xzspo1_500.gif

I just got tired of wading through it to get to posts about the actual thread topic.

I understand what you're saying. Just to clarify, my gif was just a random joke. It wasn't a jab at you or anything.

I'll be honest - the biggest critic of VOY on this site is probably me. Well...most vocal usually. But I sincerely don't want people to feel that they are not welcome here or that I'd hound them if they said they liked VOY or the characters or the ship or whatever. There are aspects of the show I really like such as the EMH and Seven of Nine.

And for the record - I think more people are fans of TOS/TNG around here than strictly DS9. At least, most of the original posters.

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I'm not a big fan of VGR but I have no issues with anyone to whom it's their thing. Live and let live.

Yes, if prodded I'll make fun of VGR, but if someone has a sincere love of the show and, in a VGR thread, makes good cases for why they love the show (even for sentimental reasons)? I'm totally open to listen. But honestly, very few people here seem willing (or wanting) to jump to VGR's defense. And if they did? I'd love to hear why (sincerely, not sarcastically).

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I'd like to hear why too. There was Voyager fans on this forum years before I signed up. Combing through those ancient threads, it seems that some were feminists who enjoyed Janeway's and Kes' characters, and were later turned off by Seven of Nine. I found myself disagreeing with a lot of what was posted by these 'retired' posters.

I also agree that DS9 takes a backseat to TOS/TNG in popularity on omegasector. I think there's a bit of a natural rivalry between DS9 and Voyager fans because the shows ran concurrently. I'm not saying that I don't feel welcome now, I'm saying that was an early impression that I had. I know that nothing offensive was meant by the gif, but my initial reaction was one out of frustration. I also admit that I pile on Enterprise a lot in their sub-forum as well. I'll try to remember to refrain from that in the future.

Edited by Hammer

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I'd like to hear why too. There was Voyager fans on this forum years before I signed up. Combing through those ancient threads, it seems that some were feminists who enjoyed Janeway's and Kes' characters, and were later turned off by Seven of Nine. I found myself disagreeing with a lot of what was posted by these 'retired' posters.

I also agree that DS9 takes a backseat to TOS/TNG in popularity on omegasector. I think there's a bit of a natural rivalry between DS9 and Voyager fans because the shows ran concurrently. I'm not saying that I don't feel welcome now, I'm saying that was an early impression that I had. I know that nothing offensive was meant by the gif, but my initial reaction was one out of frustration. I also admit that I pile on Enterprise a lot in their sub-forum as well. I'll try to remember to refrain from that in the future.

If one has an honest criticism, then I see no reason to self-censor. There's a difference between criticism and bashing. And while some of us non-VGR fans (myself included) cross the line now and then (I need to refrain from that as well), I would say most of the criticisms I read on these threads about VGR and ENT are often quite legitimate.

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I also agree that DS9 takes a backseat to TOS/TNG in popularity on omegasector. I think there's a bit of a natural rivalry between DS9 and Voyager fans because the shows ran concurrently. I'm not saying that I don't feel welcome now, I'm saying that was an early impression that I had. I know that nothing offensive was meant by the gif, but my initial reaction was one out of frustration. I also admit that I pile on Enterprise a lot in their sub-forum as well. I'll try to remember to refrain from that in the future.

You're right about the rivalry. I used to be on another Trek forum before this one. It literally was like a nerdy turf war between the Niners and Voyagers. It often descended into personal attacks and accusations of racism, sexism, lack of intellect (a claim against VOY fans), love of violence (a claim against DS9), etc.

But like Sehlat Vie, you shouldn't have to "refrain" from it. We all love Trek but it has its downsides. DS9 had an entire episode where the crew got stuck inside of a board game.... It was Jumanji meets Trek. :P VOY had some stinkers. ENT did. etc.

This topic, though, highlighted one of the dumbest ideas on VOY and dumbest in Trek in general.

And I think no matter what, the episode Threshhold will often get vitriol lobbed at it. Even VOY fans don't seem to approve of it. haha

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I'm sorry if any of my numerous depreciating comments towards VOY annoyed, intimidated or even hurt people here.

Like Sehlat, I've not hidden my dislike of VOY (which is mostly just born out of disappointment -- I wanted to love the show, and then got angry when I couldn't), but it was never meant as a personal attack against VOY fans or people who simply enjoy the show. So my apologies if it came across as rude.

I admit I'm a clear "Niner" -- but I also have a lot of love for TOS and TNG. Sometimes, it's hard to decide for me which of these three shows I like best. TOS has the huge nostalgia bonus. TNG too, to some extent, plus TNG was the basis all later shows were built on. Without TNG, there wouldn't have been a DS9, VOY or ENT. For me, DS9 is just even a tad better, because it took what TNG had established and took it even a step further.

ENT is okay in my book, not nearly as great as TOS, TNG or DS9, but enjoyable on the bottom line. And when VOY sometimes gets more hate from me than it deserves, it's really just the disappointment about what could have been, but wasn't, speaking.

Have to say, though, I very much like the post-series VOY relaunch novels. :)

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