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GustavoLeao

THE GOD THING

38 posts in this topic

STAR TREK V ? Lamest ideas ? Blasphemy ! May the God of Sha Ka Ree opens your eyes to the truth, kenman. STAR TREK V rulez !

LOL

Gus

Oh but he was a false God. So I will worry very little.

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Actually, he was the Devil himself !

Beware, I warn you, kenman !

thefinalfrontier1041.jpg

Gus

^
So.... they killed the devil with a photon torpedo and a few pot shots from a Klingon bird-of-prey?? 

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Actually, he was the Devil himself !

Beware, I warn you, kenman !

thefinalfrontier1041.jpg

Gus

^
So.... they killed the devil with a photon torpedo and a few pot shots from a Klingon bird-of-prey?? 

I've never interpreted it as the actual devil, it always came off just like some jerk alien who was imprisoned and wanted out. 

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Actually, he was the Devil himself !

Beware, I warn you, kenman !

thefinalfrontier1041.jpg

Gus

^
So.... they killed the devil with a photon torpedo and a few pot shots from a Klingon bird-of-prey?? 

I've never interpreted it as the actual devil, it always came off just like some jerk alien who was imprisoned and wanted out. 

I'd always assumed it was just another evil-alien/wannabe god.   But then again, the finale of that movie is so vague and sloppily edited, it's hard to tell...

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It was just some generic energy creature, I think. There's no hint that it was ever anything else.

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Shatner has said that in his original plotline (that made Paramount executives very nervous) it was Satan, but Harve Bennett convince him to change the ending to be an alien pretending to be God. And the Bran Ferren FX didnt help either. So in my mind, this creature was pure evil, and thats why it was trapped in this planet beyond reach, thats makes sense. It could be the devil or the creature that created the devil mythos on Earth. Shatner in his book STAR TREK MOVIE MEMORIES says that changing the concept was his first mistake in the movie.

I sincerely recommend the novelization of STAR TREK V and the DC Comics book adaptation, which were written before the ending was reshot and explores those questions in more detail.

14184481_10210520706193100_4203807870540

Gus

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Shatner has said that in his original plotline (that made Paramount executives very nervous) it was Satan, but Harve Bennett convince him to change the ending to be an alien pretending to be God. And the Bran Ferren FX didnt help either. So in my mind, this creature was pure evil, and thats why it was trapped in this planet beyond reach, thats makes sense. It could be the devil or the creature that created the devil mythos on Earth. Shatner in his book STAR TREK MOVIE MEMORIES says that changing the concept was his first mistake in the movie.

I sincerely recommend the novelization of STAR TREK V and the DC Comics book adaptation, which were written before the ending was reshot and explores those questions in more detail.

14184481_10210520706193100_4203807870540

Gus

Yeah, it looks like he gets his too-expensive rock creature, but it seems to fail to answer the central question: just WHO is the creature?  Alien energy being?  Satan?  What?   I don't think giving Shatner back his rock-men, or adding in hordes of gargoyles (from his original script) really 'fixes' the central flaws of the movie.   The flaws of the movie aren't just cosmetic; they're thematic.  

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I disagree - I found the themes of STAR TREK V very enduring and relevant - faith, personal pain, friendship, duty, death - and the fact that thisbreally resonates with me is that I am not a religious person is a funny thing, but nevertheless, if Shatner wanted to do a movie about the friendship of three very different men, he got it. It feels, smells and taste like  a classic TOS allegoric episode. When you have real friends, life long friends who have changed your life, you stuck together and fight the odds, no matter what, and THE FINAL FRONTIER was about this sort of thing.  Gene Coon would be proud, I think.

productiongallery_094.jpg

But the ending is problematic and should feature the rockman because the head of god chasing KIrk into the desert was just terrible and dont makes sense. A rockman creature, like we did in the TrekWeb fan edit DVD, would make more sense.

productiongallery_091.jpg

But STAR TREK V was a very difficult film to shot and it has some wonderful and moving scenes and I love the script and I just dont think that that ending or the Bran Ferren awful FX ruined the movie at all. At least not for me.

Gus

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I disagree - I found the themes of STAR TREK V very enduring and relevant - faith, personal pain, friendship, duty, death - and the fact that thisbreally resonates with me is that I am not a religious person is a funny thing, but nevertheless, if Shatner wanted to do a movie about the friendship of three very different men, he got it. It feels, smells and taste like  a classic TOS allegoric episode. When you have real friends, life long friends who have changed your life, you stuck together and fight the odds, no matter what, and THE FINAL FRONTIER was about this sort of thing.  Gene Coon would be proud, I think.

productiongallery_094.jpg

But the ending is problematic and should feature the rockman because the head of god chasing KIrk into the desert was just terrible and dont makes sense. A rockman creature, like we did in the TrekWeb fan edit DVD, would make more sense.

productiongallery_091.jpg

But STAR TREK V was a very difficult film to shot and it has some wonderful and moving scenes and I love the script and I just dont think that that ending or the Bran Ferren awful FX ruined the movie at all. At least not for me.

Gus

But the movie's central premise is looking for God; and no offense to anyone who believes, but you're not going to find God in a Star Trek movie.   Or any movie, for that matter.   So the movie's central storyline is an automatic anticlimax.  

They're on a search for God but we (the audience) already KNOW ahead of time that they're not going to find him.  

And there's also the awkward and inappropriate humor throughout the movie; the slapstick: Scotty banging his head on a pipe (into unconsciousness, for chrissakes; makes him look downright incompetent), Uhura's impromptu fan-dance on the Nimbus III rescue mission (does she ALWAYS carry giant fans with her on away missions?), or Sulu and Chekov getting lost in the woods (even with Star Trek tech...).   It all feels shoehorned in.  

If Sybok had hijacked the Enterprise for another reason (forcible reunification with Vulcan's Romulan brothers, perhaps?) or who knows what, it might've been a bit more interesting than an anticlimactic non-starter quest to find God (and why would he believe that God would only reside in the center of OUR galaxy, when there are literally trillions of galaxies in our universe, some of them much older than ours?).   It's not a minor quibble; it's a showstopper. 

So I don't think Bran Ferren ruined the movie so much as Shatner and Loughery did; it's the script that's the problem, not missing hordes of gargoyles and rock-men.

 

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Well, as I said, I love the STAR TREK V script, the character of Sybok (what a wondeful actor Laurence Luckinbill is) and the theme of friendship and dicovering your pain.

God, to me, it was not what the movie was about, its just there to give more depth to the leap of faith of the messiah-like Sybok character and makes the friendship theme stronger in the finale ("Please Captain...not in front of the Kingons" and so forth).

The humor didnt bother me a bit - I actually liked the humor best in STAR TREK V than STAR TREK IV.......sigh

But dont worry, Sehlat.

"I'm just sorry (and a bit saddened) you didn't see or feel what I did, but I'm not trying to convert you."

Gus

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Well, as I said, I love the STAR TREK V script, the character of Sybok (what a wondeful actor Laurence Luckinbill is) and the theme of friendship and dicovering your pain.

God, to me, it was not what the movie was about, its just there to give more depth to the leap of faith of the messiah-like Sybok character and makes the friendship theme stronger in the finale ("Please Captain...not in front of the Kingons" and so forth).

The humor didnt bother me a bit - I actually liked the humor best in STAR TREK V than STAR TREK IV.......sigh

But dont worry, Sehlat.

"I'm just sorry (and a bit saddened) you didn't see or feel what I did, but I'm not trying to convert you."

Gus

^
That quote does have a familiar ring about it.   
:P

Hehe... :giggle:

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They're on a search for God but we (the audience) already KNOW ahead of time that they're not going to find him. 

In today's episode of, "An Amateur's Take on Storytelling":

This is true. In order for this premise to work, it actually can't be the primary driver of the film, and it can't be the driver of the film because it can't payoff the viewer. The viewer knows that he can't and won't find God, but he'll use the premise well enough if you make it the impetus for the "real story," the story being taking back the ship, or examining the Trek troika and what binds them, or even the psychology of blind religious zealotry. Or all of the above at once.

There are those elements peppered all over the film, from McCoy with his father, to Sybok himself, to the idea that Spock is still coming back to himself and trying to figure out how to, in a real way, bond with his brothers once again. But none of those story elements can gel into something most viewers can really care about because the film insists on pushing forward with the conceit that Kirk and company will find God.

I would have played up the family elements as the troika as they hash out their family problems and maybe discuss what God is to THEM, which gives an opportunity for a few good moments of traditional Trek philosophy. I can say for certain that in my version of the screenplay, the ship wouldn't have made it to or through the barrier at all...

...because that really can't be the point.

 

 

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