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StillKirok

General Marvel Discussion

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And in the TV movies, Banner's death wasn't meant to be permanent. There were plans for another TV movie, but between the ratings of the third movie and Bixby's cancer, it couldn't happen.

Doesn't really matter to me. What happened ultimately was by far the best thing for the narrative, I think.

The Hulk is a tragic story to begin with (at least the TV version); his wife's death leads to an obsession with gamma rays, the accident, followed by multiple involuntary transformations that force Banner to fake his own death and live underground. I agree that ending on a tragic note (on TV anyway) was the best way to go with that arc. In the end, Banner gets peace and the Hulk is gone.

It'd be really sappy if everything just came up roses in the end.

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It'd be really sappy if everything just came up roses in the end.

Indeed. I don't see how they'd resurrect him. It just sounds so convoluted to even think about.

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It'd be really sappy if everything just came up roses in the end.

Indeed. I don't see how they'd resurrect him. It just sounds so convoluted to even think about.

Maybe I'm a bit morbid, but I like having closing chapters... even in my fantasies.

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Not really. You just like an end to the story. Some people don't want it to end because they're so attached to it, so they'll go as out there as they have to to keep it going. You need closure.

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Look, it's a fair opinion, but unfortunately, the death remained permanent because of the death of a great actor.

Bixby was absolutely brilliant as Banner, and if you ever are inclined to rewatch the show, Ferrigno was actually pretty good too. Surprisingly, he did a little bit more than growl and flex.

Even if David got cured, it wouldn't be all that sappy. The man would have lost years of his life, and endured a lot of pain along the way. It would have been nice had he been written a great.

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Look, it's a fair opinion, but unfortunately, the death remained permanent because of the death of a great actor.

Bixby was absolutely brilliant as Banner, and if you ever are inclined to rewatch the show, Ferrigno was actually pretty good too. Surprisingly, he did a little bit more than growl and flex.

I agree on all points; Bixby and Ferrigno were as much the Hulk to me and my generation as Chris Reeve was Superman.

Bixby imparted a truth and gravitas to even the corniest dialogue that made you hang your cynicism right outside the door whenever he spoke...

And Ferrigno really evolved during his time on the show; he wasn't so great in the beginning but later episodes you could really see the character behind the white contacts...

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I still feel that they haven't got Hulk right yet with the CGI. Ferrigno remains my favorite version of the character, despite being the weakest incarnation.

The TV show had Hulk way too weak. He could be killed by ordinary bullets.

Bixby was so good as Banner. He portrayed him as a really good human being so you really felt for him. A great example is an episode where Banner was hit by a car and paralyzed from the waist down. He flashed back to a scene in an early episode, maybe even the pilot, where he was reminding himself that the Hulk could make him heal.

For a moment, he considered changing into the Hulk on purpose. At the last second, despite all the benefit it would give him personally, he refused to do it.

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I still feel that they haven't got Hulk right yet with the CGI. Ferrigno remains my favorite version of the character, despite being the weakest incarnation.

The TV show had Hulk way too weak. He could be killed by ordinary bullets.

Bixby was so good as Banner. He portrayed him as a really good human being so you really felt for him. A great example is an episode where Banner was hit by a car and paralyzed from the waist down. He flashed back to a scene in an early episode, maybe even the pilot, where he was reminding himself that the Hulk could make him heal.

For a moment, he considered changing into the Hulk on purpose. At the last second, despite all the benefit it would give him personally, he refused to do it.

That episode, "The Harder They Fall" is one of my favorites as well.

I spent several months in rehabilitation after a devastating motorcycle accident 20 years ago (I was hit by a drunk driver) and that episode inspired me personally in many ways. And it captured the experience of physical rehabilitation down to a tee; you do have people who reach out to you (fellow patients, nurses, etc), and you (in my case, anyway) tend to shun them at first, because you are happier wallowing in your own misery. The scene where David finally takes a helping hand after collapsing in a self-attempt to transfer from bed to chair is one of the most powerful moments of the series, IMO.

And the idea of David not wanting to risk the transformation even when it could help him also reinforces how traumatic an experience each hulk-out must be for him; like an epileptic seizure. The loss of control and intellect; the lack of accountability, etc. In the episode "Married" (another favorite of mine), he actually describes exactly how the experience feels for him (a reaction takes over; a power surge, like "a locomotive"). Involuntary seizing of the muscles; not too unlike an epileptic seizure.

One of the things I love so much about Bixby's Hulk, and why it is still my favorite (bullet injuries and all) is that it made the experience of the Hulk a real one; it made it feel like something that could actually happen (even if it blatantly violates all kinds of physical and biological rules). It's also one of the reasons I still enjoy it more than the movie Hulks; he has vulnerability. He is a superhero more by his courageous actions and his unswerving moral compass rather than an ability to allow machine gun fire to harmlessly repel off of his body like a mild hailstorm.

This was a Hulk I could believe in, and it was easier to emotionally invest in his danger precisely because his Hulk was strong but NOT invulnerable.

As for the CGI Hulks not being believable enough? I tend to agree.

I think Ruffalo's Hulk in "The Avengers" actually came closest to resembling a living thing (it even had some of Ruffalo's graying hair; a nice touch). But on the whole, the previous CGI Hulks look more like a very pissed off Shrek. I also enjoyed the Ed Norton movie and thought that it came closest to the TV series in terms of humanizing the Banner character (Bana's Hulk in 2003 was a blank slate; that was a lousy performance). I think Ruffalo's Hulk strikes the best balance for a movie Hulk; he is a bit more quirky and funny than his predecessors (which works better for a tongue-in-cheek movie like "Avengers") but I'd like to see him do a more serious standalone Hulk movie, and really go for it this time. Having seen Ruffalo in "The Kids Are Alright" and "The Normal Heart", I know he more than has the acting chops to do a really serious interpretation of the character....

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For me, I feel that David just hated the creature that much. Every time he transformed, he ran the risk of hurting an innocent.

I think there was one episode where the creature was alleged to have attacked a person. It was false, but David didn't know that. Then later in the episode, he reads that the person died, and he broke down in tears. The idea that he would choose a life in a wheelchair over the mere risk that he might hurt someone (despite the creature never doing so), speaks volumes about the character.

The Hulk on that show never seemed like a superhero, because despite what he did, I can only think of one instance where the Hulk actually did anything heroic. Usually, the Hulk gets David out of a jam, flexes, breaks some things, and runs away. Probably the result of the censors at the time, or maybe the budget.

But there was one episode, where David is on a college campus, and there is a rapist/murderer running around attacking random women. David happens along just as a girl is about to be raped, and the rapist beats the snot out of him. Just as the girl is about to be raped and killed, the Hulk appears and saves the day. Other than maybe when he fought the second Hulk, that might have been my favorite transformation.

There were many better episodes than that one, but in that particular instance, the Hulk had to be cheered.

For me, I don't think it was the vulnerability--at least not the physical, that appealed to me. Hulk should be tougher and stronger than that. It was the actors. Overall, the scripts weren't THAT great. They were decent at times, but the episodes were really repetitive. Two transformations, leave.

But the actors just did such a good job that you liked them. Makes me wonder a bit how Bixby would do if he was the same age he was in the series, but around today, and had the role of Banner.

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Overall, the scripts weren't THAT great. They were decent at times, but the episodes were really repetitive. Two transformations, leave.

That was the product of the era however.Particularly form the 60s and 70s, 'formula' shows like that were the norm

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For me, I feel that David just hated the creature that much. Every time he transformed, he ran the risk of hurting an innocent.

I think there was one episode where the creature was alleged to have attacked a person. It was false, but David didn't know that. Then later in the episode, he reads that the person died, and he broke down in tears. The idea that he would choose a life in a wheelchair over the mere risk that he might hurt someone (despite the creature never doing so), speaks volumes about the character.

The Hulk on that show never seemed like a superhero, because despite what he did, I can only think of one instance where the Hulk actually did anything heroic. Usually, the Hulk gets David out of a jam, flexes, breaks some things, and runs away. Probably the result of the censors at the time, or maybe the budget.

But there was one episode, where David is on a college campus, and there is a rapist/murderer running around attacking random women. David happens along just as a girl is about to be raped, and the rapist beats the snot out of him. Just as the girl is about to be raped and killed, the Hulk appears and saves the day. Other than maybe when he fought the second Hulk, that might have been my favorite transformation.

There were many better episodes than that one, but in that particular instance, the Hulk had to be cheered.

For me, I don't think it was the vulnerability--at least not the physical, that appealed to me. Hulk should be tougher and stronger than that. It was the actors. Overall, the scripts weren't THAT great. They were decent at times, but the episodes were really repetitive. Two transformations, leave.

But the actors just did such a good job that you liked them. Makes me wonder a bit how Bixby would do if he was the same age he was in the series, but around today, and had the role of Banner.

I remember the Hulk acting heroically in almost EVERY episode; that was kind of the point.

He didn't just transform to get himself/David out of a jam; he often appeared and righted a wrong as well. Destroyed a crook's evil lair, that sort of thing. He never actually punched anyone; it was more like shoving them really hard or bending bars around them to keep them in place till the cops arrived, that sort of thing. There were all kinds of crackdowns on television violence at shows aimed for kids in those days; and one of the mandates of the Hulk series was that he couldn't punch or really 'fight' anybody (if you watch the show, most of his fights are defensive in nature rather than offensive). I think that was a good thing, really; otherwise the Hulk would've just been a big raging bully. As it was, he was a champion for the underdog or the oppressed. Nice little message show.

For me, his weekly righting of wrongs made the show almost like a big, green, roaring version of Quantum Leap.

I loved the Hulk TV show, precisely for what it was; I never really compared it to the comic books either (even though I loved those as well). I saw them as separate universes. Enjoying each on its own merits. I was kind of afraid when they started making Hulk movies that they'd lose sight of that, and to a degree they did, but it's OK. The TV show had a healthy 5 year run, so there's plenty of material to pick through and enjoy.

Overall, the scripts weren't THAT great. They were decent at times, but the episodes were really repetitive. Two transformations, leave.

That was the product of the era however.Particularly form the 60s and 70s, 'formula' shows like that were the norm

^

Very much this.

I remember listening to producer Kenneth Johnson at Comic Con talking about the series (I've also emailed him; he's a nice guy!), and aside from the expense of the stunts, ripped clothes and destroyed props in the Hulkout scenes, the expense of the makeup itself was also a consideration; the green body makeup was a special blue/yellow mix that had to be imported from Germany (!) for some reason, and was rather expensive.

These days a Hulk TV series could probably have him stay in a CGI "Hulk mode" for half the episode, but it would also lose a bit of that 'rustic charm' of the old series (not to mention that filling Bill Bixby's formidable shoes would be one hell of a tall order... three movie actors still haven't quite done it, IMO).

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Days of Future Past: The Rogue Cut:

It’s been a while since we heard Fox would release a special “Rogue Cut” of X-Men: Days of Future Past, featuring the B-plot that was axed from the film. We finally have an update — and it’s very good news.
While the theatrical cut has been out on DVD for a while now, the studio has remained mum on the mythical “Rogue Cut,” which aims to restore the scenes involving Rogue (Anna Paquin), including a massive prison break and structural changes to the back half of the film. It was a relatively sizable undertaking to cut her from the film due to time constraints, and that’s precisely the reason we haven’t heard anything about a release.
Turns out the studio is putting together a full-on, standalone Blu-ray set for the “Rogue Cut,” with its own unique special features separate from the theatrical cut. The studio is calling it a “complimentary” release to the main film. Fox Home Entertainment executive vice president of marketing communications James Finn confirmed the plan via Twitter, and also revealed it should hit Blu-ray and digital platforms in summer 2015.
Day one buy for me.

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That was the product of the era however.Particularly form the 60s and 70s, 'formula' shows like that were the norm

True. I bet today, the show would be a lot better and more exciting. You'd also see the Hulk do a lot more. Maybe Rick Jones would be a part of the show. But if they kept the same ideals, you would likely see Hulk have super powered foes.

I'm not saying the Hulk wasn't a good natured creature. But I never really saw him as heroic. I think David made the difference in people's lives more than the Hulk did.

And one thing I definitely agree with--Bixby is hard to replace. He really was well cast. Terrific actor.

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True. I bet today, the show would be a lot better and more exciting.

More Run, slam, boom, smash.

Yawn.

No, thank you.

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That sucks for me about the Rouge Cut. I would have bought that if I didn't JUST by the movie this month. Didn't know about it.

What is great about Raimi is that he was man enough to admit he screwed up, and given his history with Spidey, it makes me more confident he would do well with another chance.

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Apparently Downey Jr. is going to "star" in Captain America 3.

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/13/robert-downey-jr-captain-america-3_n_5980480.html?cps=gravity_2425_3115092647271225106

I'm excited about the potential for the civil war plot line. But I am confused if they are turning Captain America 3 into Iron Man 4....

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That was the product of the era however.Particularly form the 60s and 70s, 'formula' shows like that were the norm

True. I bet today, the show would be a lot better and more exciting. You'd also see the Hulk do a lot more. Maybe Rick Jones would be a part of the show. But if they kept the same ideals, you would likely see Hulk have super powered foes.

I'm not saying the Hulk wasn't a good natured creature. But I never really saw him as heroic. I think David made the difference in people's lives more than the Hulk did.

^

The very definition of heroic in my book. Hulk and David are two aspects of the same being...

True. I bet today, the show would be a lot better and more exciting.

More Run, slam, boom, smash.

Yawn.

No, thank you.

Agreed.

The '70s/'80s one still works for me, thanks.

I don't need more CGI shots of a 20 ft high Hulk throwing tanks around like frisbees... that's what hollow, dumb action movies are for. :P

Apparently Downey Jr. is going to "star" in Captain America 3.

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/13/robert-downey-jr-captain-america-3_n_5980480.html?cps=gravity_2425_3115092647271225106

I'm excited about the potential for the civil war plot line. But I am confused if they are turning Captain America 3 into Iron Man 4....

That could be a problem; Downey tends to steal scenes just by breathing...

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Agreed.

The '70s/'80s one still works for me, thanks.

Because it was more about Banner than The Hulk. Banner and his dealing with the green-eyed monster was always more interesting to me? In the market as it is today? It'd almost demand that Bruce stay in the background in favor of Hulk smash.

That'd get real old, real quick.

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Apparently Downey Jr. is going to "star" in Captain America 3.

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/13/robert-downey-jr-captain-america-3_n_5980480.html?cps=gravity_2425_3115092647271225106

I'm excited about the potential for the civil war plot line. But I am confused if they are turning Captain America 3 into Iron Man 4....

Though since the plan is for them to be on opposite sides of the war, than, for good or ill, the face off kind of has to happen.

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Ugh. Double dipping. And it does seem like a sizeable chunk too. Nope. Not gonna do it.

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Ugh. Double dipping. And it does seem like a sizeable chunk too. Nope. Not gonna do it.

Technically it is, but to me a double dip is more like the recent box set of Trek '09 and STID. Rebuy this for literally nothing than having all the various featurettes put together. The Rogue Cut is a sizable addition to the actual film.

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Ugh. Double dipping. And it does seem like a sizeable chunk too. Nope. Not gonna do it.

Technically it is, but to me a double dip is more like the recent box set of Trek '09 and STID. Rebuy this for literally nothing than having all the various featurettes put together. The Rogue Cut is a sizable addition to the actual film.

I'll probably stream it, or Netflix it, but that is real dirty pool to release this so hot on the heels of the original DVD/blu ray/digital release. I have the one I saw in the theatre and it's going to have to do.

I'm not buying XM:DOFP again unless the entire structure of the movie is so radically changed that it creates a true alternate version, ala the Blade Runner incarnations.

And not to be negative, but I'm not that big a Rogue fan either...

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Hulk and David WERE two aspects of the same being. That's a good description, but at least when I watched the show, I felt David was the true hero, not the beast. At least in general. This was a good man who got hit with a terrible thing, and managed to make a difference in people's lives despite being essentially on the run.


I do wonder though--if David had stopped and talked to McGee, even if he published the story, what would have happened. Sometimes, David got real close to curing himself. Perhaps in a proper lab, under proper conditions, he might have succeeded.

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That's a very interesting question; what would've happened if David's story got out and McGee published it?

For one thing, Banner would probably be arrested; at the very least, he'd be wanted for questioning regarding the death of Elena Marks (his lab assistant in the pilot). The Hulk was the prime suspect in her death (even though McGee is the one who inadvertently caused the chemical leak which caused the fire), and if he and the Hulk were discovered to be the same person? He'd probably stand trial for her murder. Then Banner would probably be brought up on fraud charges for faking his own death for all of those years, and after that? I suspect he would 'disappear' courtesy of the military and live out his days in a top secret Area-51 type government lab that'd be more intent on weaponizing him than 'curing' him (as we saw in the 2008 movie).

That's my guess.

Or option #2: Since the National Register (McGee's paper) was a scandal sheet, no one would believe the story and David would be off the hook. But I suspect the previous scenario above is the more likely one....

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