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benbess

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Voyager was chased by Borg spheres through the transwarp conduits, and Starfleet was gathered at the alpha quadrant end. They detected the spheres and expected a fight. The last sphere came out in pieces while Voyager emerges intact.

I assumed the Borg were destroyed by the collapsing transwarp conduits, no?

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You know, I can barely remember the finale of Voyager, whereas I can recall all the finales to the other Trek shows (even Enterprise, which I wish I could forget). I might have to watch it again.

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I am a big fan, they could have done better but it was what it was. I was never a Seven or Kes fan and I am a huge J/C Shipper. I loved the EMH and his development, Picardo played the role great.

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Sim   

I am a big fan, they could have done better but it was what it was. I was never a Seven or Kes fan and I am a huge J/C Shipper. I loved the EMH and his development, Picardo played the role great.

I didn't like Janeway in the series, and VOY is my least favorite Star Trek series in general, but I have to say I greatly enjoyed the "relaunch" novels by Christie Golden and Kirsten Beyer so far!

As you mention J/C, I very much liked what Beyer did with the two in the novels. It made so much sense in retrospect of the series!

Edited by Sim

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Like Sim, I actually enjoyed the relaunch novels (the two I read, anyway) more than the series.

But as a lover of both the Animated Series and the movie GENERATIONS (both of which get TONS of online hate), I would never question the sincere devotion of anyone's love of a ST series, even if I don't personally enjoy it.

The heart wants what it wants, YankeeShak!

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Well, i like all Star Treks, so yes, i like Voyager, the Doctor really mattered to me as a character, because he was the one that motivated me to sing for the first time, a habit i still hold today, and has helped me a lot with my shyness. I may be alone at this, but i personally think B'elanna is awesome character. Her constant struggle with the several parts of her ware very interesting and very well done.

Tuvok was one of my favorites as well, and Seven too, even Harry got my attention, but never quite as much as the other characters from other series, except for the Doctor and BLT i guess. :dry:

... And i got a crush on B'elanna. Nothing like Ezri, but still a crush anyway. :giggle:

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I may be alone at this, but i personally think B'elanna is awesome character. Her constant struggle with the several parts of her ware very interesting and very well done.

I think she did her best acting in the episode (I can't recall the name) where she was trying to change the look of the baby. The plot line for the episode worked as a great analogy for people growing up as an "other" and the emotional damage that can accrue from that.

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I may be alone at this, but i personally think B'elanna is awesome character. Her constant struggle with the several parts of her ware very interesting and very well done.

I think she did her best acting in the episode (I can't recall the name) where she was trying to change the look of the baby. The plot line for the episode worked as a great analogy for people growing up as an "other" and the emotional damage that can accrue from that.

Yes! I find that (to quote someone)... fascinating :rolleyes:

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VOY is my second favourite iteration of the franchise behind only the mighty original series.

Although I still enjoy DS9 to varying degrees (I own the complete series), it had rapidly, and markedly, become my least preferred Trek variant back in the day. For me, it was/is a million light years from what Star Trek should be. So, when VOY launched it was a welcome return to the format I had come to adore, and although the exploration of deep space was somewhat involuntary due to unfortunate circumstance, at least we actually had a starship in deep space doing the new lives and civilisations thing! No more drawn out, mind-numbingly tedious wars that dragged on and on and on and on, no more pseudo-religious nonsense, no more "Prophets" and Pah-wraiths - honestly, I didn't know if I was watching Star Trek or a second rate fantasy show some weeks on DS9!

I quickly warmed to the VOYAGER ensemble, and felt they were the most likeable, varied and striking crew since Kirk and co - and yes, although I had my reservations about Seven of Nine, far from existing merely as superfluous eye candy for the male demographic, she went on become a complex, compelling and ultimately endearing character.

I felt VOY also manifestly returned Star Trek's "humanist philosophy" back to our TV screens while injecting some feminine authority into the mix. Despite the sometimes overt "T&A" aspect of Seven's appearance, it could be argued VOY is a feminist show in the same way Buffy was/is. Overall, just a terrific series I return to frequently.

Edited by LOKAI of CHERON

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Olivia   

Voyager is my favourite show. Like all good TV shows it has things that not all people like but overall it's pretty fantastic!

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Sim   

Voyager is my favourite show. Like all good TV shows it has things that not all people like but overall it's pretty fantastic!

Ah, great to finally have a VOY fan on board! :)

It seemed like your species had been mostly extinct here in this environment ... hope you won't be annoyed by all the dislike of VOY. Please make this your natural habitat! :)

What do you like most about VOY?

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Olivia   

Voyager is my favourite show. Like all good TV shows it has things that not all people like but overall it's pretty fantastic!

Ah, great to finally have a VOY fan on board! :)

It seemed like your species had been mostly extinct here in this environment ... hope you won't be annoyed by all the dislike of VOY. Please make this your natural habitat! :)

What do you like most about VOY?

I remember being so excited about the first episode coming out, having watched TNG and DS9, and watching Janeway as this empowered strong woman really caught me from the start. 

I also loved the fact it was a little dangerous, so far out into uncharted territories. 

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Sim   

Voyager is my favourite show. Like all good TV shows it has things that not all people like but overall it's pretty fantastic!

Ah, great to finally have a VOY fan on board! :)

It seemed like your species had been mostly extinct here in this environment ... hope you won't be annoyed by all the dislike of VOY. Please make this your natural habitat! :)

What do you like most about VOY?

I remember being so excited about the first episode coming out, having watched TNG and DS9, and watching Janeway as this empowered strong woman really caught me from the start. 

I also loved the fact it was a little dangerous, so far out into uncharted territories. 

That's interesting. So Janeway was a point of identification for you, that's great! I think I always had a soft spot for Spock and Data. :P

Perhaps you've read what I wrote above about my dislike of VOY ... I don't remember exactly what it was I wrote, so sorry if I repeat myself... I was neutral towards VOY at the beginning, even somewhat excited about a new Star Trek series starting. None of the previous Star Trek shows had been great right from the beginning, so I was patient and was giving it time. But somehow, somewhere in the middle or towards the end of season 2, I lost this enthusiasm.

Perhaps there are three things that bothered me most: The things the series could have been but wasn't, the interesting ideas that weren't properly developed, but the producers rather "played it safe" (for example, that they mostly forgot the Starfleet/Maquis conflict after the second episode). And then, that there was not enough character development, and events in one episode were forgotten most of the time by the end of the episode. Which perhaps is why I didn't really care for most characters. Maybe I was just too spoiled by DS9 and its great arcs and character development.

But when I read the "relaunch" novels (the novels which continue the story after the end of the series), I realized I actually like most of the characters. It almost feels to me like they made up with these novels whatever they missed during the series. Have you read them, by any chance? :)

 

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Olivia   

Voyager is my favourite show. Like all good TV shows it has things that not all people like but overall it's pretty fantastic!

Ah, great to finally have a VOY fan on board! :)

It seemed like your species had been mostly extinct here in this environment ... hope you won't be annoyed by all the dislike of VOY. Please make this your natural habitat! :)

What do you like most about VOY?

I remember being so excited about the first episode coming out, having watched TNG and DS9, and watching Janeway as this empowered strong woman really caught me from the start. 

I also loved the fact it was a little dangerous, so far out into uncharted territories. 

That's interesting. So Janeway was a point of identification for you, that's great! I think I always had a soft spot for Spock and Data. :P

Perhaps you've read what I wrote above about my dislike of VOY ... I don't remember exactly what it was I wrote, so sorry if I repeat myself... I was neutral towards VOY at the beginning, even somewhat excited about a new Star Trek series starting. None of the previous Star Trek shows had been great right from the beginning, so I was patient and was giving it time. But somehow, somewhere in the middle or towards the end of season 2, I lost this enthusiasm.

Perhaps there are three things that bothered me most: The things the series could have been but wasn't, the interesting ideas that weren't properly developed, but the producers rather "played it safe" (for example, that they mostly forgot the Starfleet/Maquis conflict after the second episode). And then, that there was not enough character development, and events in one episode were forgotten most of the time by the end of the episode. Which perhaps is why I didn't really care for most characters. Maybe I was just too spoiled by DS9 and its great arcs and character development.

But when I read the "relaunch" novels (the novels which continue the story after the end of the series), I realized I actually like most of the characters. It almost feels to me like they made up with these novels whatever they missed during the series. Have you read them, by any chance? :)

 

I haven't read them but I think I'm going to have a look at them.

I agree with what you say to a certain degree. In some ways, Voyager stuck to the initial remit of ST in that sense of avoiding long arcs etc but as the series progresses it does evolve. My favourite seasons are from three onwards to be fair.

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Hammer   

I agree, S3 onwards was better than the first two. They did try longer arcs early on with the Kazon, but I think the show gets better once the Kazon are left in the rear view mirror. This is an exploration show which lends itself more to an episodic format. If you are to watch a serialized show like DS9, it takes a lot of buy-in by the fans to get into it. If you don't like the Bajorans for example (what sci-fi junkie doesn't love religious fanatics? :rolleyes: ), it's too bad because you are stuck with them for the entire run of the show. If an alien species doesn't work on Voyager, that's okay, because Voyager will be out of their neighborhood by next week. 

I have read 'Acts of Contrition' by Kristen Beyer, and if that novel is anything to go by, the relaunch Voyager novels are well worth reading.

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Sim   

I agree, S3 onwards was better than the first two. They did try longer arcs early on with the Kazon, but I think the show gets better once the Kazon are left in the rear view mirror. This is an exploration show which lends itself more to an episodic format. If you are to watch a serialized show like DS9, it takes a lot of buy-in by the fans to get into it. If you don't like the Bajorans for example (what sci-fi junkie doesn't love religious fanatics? :rolleyes: ), it's too bad because you are stuck with them for the entire run of the show. If an alien species doesn't work on Voyager, that's okay, because Voyager will be out of their neighborhood by next week. 

I have read 'Acts of Contrition' by Kristen Beyer, and if that novel is anything to go by, the relaunch Voyager novels are well worth reading.

That's a good point. On the other side, they could have made character arcs, at least... I mean arcs that don't span external conflicts, but individual characters of the VOY crew.

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As much as I loved Voyager, I think I would have loved it a lot more if there had been some more continuity between the episodes. And I don't mean that sort of really tight DS9-style continuity, I mean... logical continuity.Like with the photon torpedoes and shuttles. I read somewhere that Voyager actually expended its supply of torpedoes somewhere in Season 2, yet they just kept on coming... Same thing goes for the shuttles. Off the top of my head, I can think of 6 shuttles that have been destroyed ("Initiations," "The Gift," "Day of Honor," 2 in "Counterpoint," and the Delta Flyer in "Unimatrix Zero"). How big is that shuttlebay? They've also got Neelix's ship in there... We know that they can rebuild the shuttles since they built the Delta Flyer twice... and they can probably make some more torpedoes, but it would have been nice to actually see some of this every now and then.

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Sim   

As much as I loved Voyager, I think I would have loved it a lot more if there had been some more continuity between the episodes. And I don't mean that sort of really tight DS9-style continuity, I mean... logical continuity.Like with the photon torpedoes and shuttles. I read somewhere that Voyager actually expended its supply of torpedoes somewhere in Season 2, yet they just kept on coming... Same thing goes for the shuttles. Off the top of my head, I can think of 6 shuttles that have been destroyed ("Initiations," "The Gift," "Day of Honor," 2 in "Counterpoint," and the Delta Flyer in "Unimatrix Zero"). How big is that shuttlebay? They've also got Neelix's ship in there... We know that they can rebuild the shuttles since they built the Delta Flyer twice... and they can probably make some more torpedoes, but it would have been nice to actually see some of this every now and then.

Another often mentioned point of criticism is this whole energy saving business... wait, they have to eat Neelix food and get replicator rations because energy is sparse, but on the other side, go to the holodeck every second episode?! I'm not a 24th century engineer, but this doesn't seem to make much sense.

It looks like the producers wanted to have their cake and eat it, too... show how isolated and endangered the ship is far away from home, but at the same time, tell all the nice cosy family friendly stories that worked well on TNG. That seemed a bit dishonest to me.

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Hammer   

Torpedoes and Run-Abouts I can suspend disbelief over. Maybe they are only initially equipped with a certain number of each, but they do have replicators and may be able to build their own. They were able to build the Delta Flyer, so they had some manufacturing ability. It was only really a problem when the plot of an episode called for it which I agree is a bit dishonest or at least fudging it.
 

As for Replicator rations, I would think that would be the way it should have been on all ships when you consider the tremendous amount of energy that would be required to create matter. Energy becomes a new kind of currency which can be traded to other crew members. We see hints of it too in DS9 with the holosuites, they obviously have some cost, Quark isn't giving it away for free to Federation crew. Substitution of real food (if you can call Neelix's cooking 'real food') for replicated food would just be a good way to balance their household budgets, allowing them to spend energy on holodecks and replicating household goods instead. Why would they then run Fair Haven for days? It might be something like a corporate retreat, the team building is worth the energy cost. Maybe Janeway is spending her own energy budget to benefit the crew? Having a crew with low morale may end up costing in other ways.

 

 

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Olivia   

Torpedoes and Run-Abouts I can suspend disbelief over. Maybe they are only initially equipped with a certain number of each, but they do have replicators and may be able to build their own. They were able to build the Delta Flyer, so they had some manufacturing ability. It was only really a problem when the plot of an episode called for it which I agree is a bit dishonest or at least fudging it.
 

As for Replicator rations, I would think that would be the way it should have been on all ships when you consider the tremendous amount of energy that would be required to create matter. Energy becomes a new kind of currency which can be traded to other crew members. We see hints of it too in DS9 with the holosuites, they obviously have some cost, Quark isn't giving it away for free to Federation crew. Substitution of real food (if you can call Neelix's cooking 'real food') for replicated food would just be a good way to balance their household budgets, allowing them to spend energy on holodecks and replicating household goods instead. Why would they then run Fair Haven for days? It might be something like a corporate retreat, the team building is worth the energy cost. Maybe Janeway is spending her own energy budget to benefit the crew? Having a crew with low morale may end up costing in other ways.

 

 

If I remember correctly they have holo-rations on VOY as well. I'm sure that Harry and Paris used to trade these for bets etc?

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I don't think they were called holo-rations (or maybe they were, I don't know), but I do recall some sort of system in place. The Doctor got pretty upset when Tom and Harry ran the Chaotica simulation beyond their allotted time in "Night."

As for Replicator rations, I would think that would be the way it should have been on all ships when you consider the tremendous amount of energy that would be required to create matter. Energy becomes a new kind of currency which can be traded to other crew members. We see hints of it too in DS9 with the holosuites, they obviously have some cost, Quark isn't giving it away for free to Federation crew. Substitution of real food (if you can call Neelix's cooking 'real food') for replicated food would just be a good way to balance their household budgets, allowing them to spend energy on holodecks and replicating household goods instead. Why would they then run Fair Haven for days? It might be something like a corporate retreat, the team building is worth the energy cost. Maybe Janeway is spending her own energy budget to benefit the crew? Having a crew with low morale may end up costing in other ways.

Hey, you haven't lived until you've tried Neelix's angla'bosque.

I know holodecks have a power system separate from the rest of the ship, so they're not stealing resources from anything else while they're up and running. Given Voyager's situation, it would make sense for them to channel that energy elsewhere so that it could be used to feed the crew or something. They obviously weren't doing that, but then again, they obviously weren't hurting for resources 95% of the time. I understand why the writers did this, as the hunt for deuterium every week would probably get old pretty quick, but on the other hand, would it hurt to have Janeway mention it in a captain's log or something?

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Olivia   

I don't think they were called holo-rations (or maybe they were, I don't know), but I do recall some sort of system in place. The Doctor got pretty upset when Tom and Harry ran the Chaotica simulation beyond their allotted time in "Night."

As for Replicator rations, I would think that would be the way it should have been on all ships when you consider the tremendous amount of energy that would be required to create matter. Energy becomes a new kind of currency which can be traded to other crew members. We see hints of it too in DS9 with the holosuites, they obviously have some cost, Quark isn't giving it away for free to Federation crew. Substitution of real food (if you can call Neelix's cooking 'real food') for replicated food would just be a good way to balance their household budgets, allowing them to spend energy on holodecks and replicating household goods instead. Why would they then run Fair Haven for days? It might be something like a corporate retreat, the team building is worth the energy cost. Maybe Janeway is spending her own energy budget to benefit the crew? Having a crew with low morale may end up costing in other ways.

Hey, you haven't lived until you've tried Neelix's angla'bosque.

I know holodecks have a power system separate from the rest of the ship, so they're not stealing resources from anything else while they're up and running. Given Voyager's situation, it would make sense for them to channel that energy elsewhere so that it could be used to feed the crew or something. They obviously weren't doing that, but then again, they obviously weren't hurting for resources 95% of the time. I understand why the writers did this, as the hunt for deuterium every week would probably get old pretty quick, but on the other hand, would it hurt to have Janeway mention it in a captain's log or something?

I'm quite glad they avoided it. It's not survivor we are watching, it's a science fiction show.

Again, I'm also pretty certain it was mentioned in the show once or twice.

I think people deliberately give VOY a hard time and then forgive TNG and DS9 for the same crimes.

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But the show was meant to be the "survivor" of Star Trek. By the time the show ended, VOY should have looked like a Frankenstein ship. Yet, it looked like it had left Earth's space dock the end of every episode.

Regardless, it did have some good moments.

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