Lt_Buttler

What is everyones issue with Gates Mcfadden...

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With the actress? Don't think anyone here has a problem with her. The character she played? Well I'll let others compile the litany of what's wrong there. I'll just say the way the part was written was highly inconsistent and generally made the doctor look bad.

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With the actress? Don't think anyone here has a problem with her. The character she played? Well I'll let others compile the litany of what's wrong there. I'll just say the way the part was written was highly inconsistent and generally made the doctor look bad.

^

This.

I have ZERO issues with GMcF. I'm sure she's a lovely person. But the part of Beverly was a giant step backward for the advancement of women in ST (as was the almost split-personality Janeway).

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As above. I've never seen anyone here say that they dislike Gates McFadden the actress, only Beverly Crusher the character. I wouldn't say that she was inconsistent (the way Janeway was) but more that she was too consistent in her attitude perfectly explained by one of her own lines - "If there's nothing wrong with me, then there must be something wrong with the universe!" Several times her incompetence, or her putting her own beliefs first against orders or her patient's wishes, has forced Picard into a morally questionable or borderline illegal corner from which he has to save the day. But... no one here hates McFadden (lol) which is what this topic is about, so that's that. ;)

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One of my problems w. Crusher (not McFadden) was she was kind of a crappy doctor, too.

* Couldn't diagnose a headache (seriously; with her tech, she couldn't tell if it was internal or externally caused??).

* Almost turned the crew into primates, insects and lizards, because she gave Barclay improper ministrations ("Genesis"). Granted, Barclay was a hypochondriac, but it was still a doctor fail. If my doctor turned me into a lemur? I'd sure as hell hope that they have INCREDIBLE malpractice insurance.

* Violated a patients' wishes (Worf, in "Ethics")

* Told an androgynous race that humans only come in male/female, which is utterly not true; even in the '90s. There are hermaphrodites, transsexuals, etc. ("The Outcast") and told them that only women 'paint their faces', etc. She buys into her own gender's stereotypes (!).

* Loses patients (Geordi in "Naked Now", Lily in "First Contact", etc).

* Shows much less of the ingenuity of McCoy or any of her contemporaries; whenever she hits a stumbling block, we get a heavy sigh, usually followed by an "I don't know" or "I haven't the slightest idea", blah, blah, blah.

I could NEVER see her treating the silicon-based Horta by beaming down thermal concrete, for example. She just doesn't seem to show much 'out of the box' thinking.

* Treats her son without much maternal affection.

When Picard infamously tells Wesley to "shut up" ("Datalore"), she is not upset by Picard's verbal abuse hurled (unfairly) at Wesley (in fact, she tells him the same!). But she seems more upset when Picard orders her "off the bridge." Seriously?!? What the f**k kind of mother is that?? She's more upset at being told to leave the bridge (to take care of her son), rather than the verbal abuse hurled at her misunderstood son. Wesley's going to write a tell-all someday, "Mommy Dearest II: Beam Me Outta Here."

* And on the subject of Wesley? In "The First Duty" (one of my favorite Wes episodes), it was Wes' mother's duty to set him straight and guilt him into coming clean, not Picard's. Another adherence to the show's bulls#!t philosophy that Beverly 'needs a strong man' in her life to 'raise Wesley right.' And even when The Traveler (an alien with questionable intent) whisks her son away ("Journey's End"), she doesn't seem to give a s#!t. Her 'maternal' advice? Bring a sweater.... WTF?!?

* In "Lonely Among Us" she doesn't think it odd that she has missing time (?) after her possession by the energy cloud entity. How did she NOT notice?? Her son (the verbally abused Wesley) has to point out her odd behavior to her (!). Then again, half the time she acts so 'spacey' that it'd be hard to tell if she is normal or possessed....

* Has a vague, roundabout way of explaining diagnoses that would frustrate even the most patient of listeners. I know it's the writing, but it's annoying as hell...

And with all respect to McFadden, but I never thought her acting was particularly believable either. I never really bought her as a physician.

However, I have known MANY doctors that have reminded me of Pulaski (sorry, but IMO Diana Muldaur was a far superior actress). Pulaski had an earthiness that McFadden's Crusher sorely lacked. I wouldn't trust Crusher to treat a bunion, let alone an alien virus.

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Locutus   

Well, I for one just think the character is too damn boring, and that probably does have something to do with the actress. I much preferred Dr. Pulaski. I enjoyed the conflict between Picard and Pulaski far more than the latent sexual tension between Picard and Crusher. Pulaski also seemed like a much stronger role model for women. I bet Pulaski would also have supported Worf's choice to commit suicide, which would have made at least that episode far more interesting and less "preachy" than Crusher's reaction made it.

Edited by Locutus

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Pulaski was a welcomed change for me. She brought that much-needed McCoy personality to the bridge, and I felt like she was featured more prominently then, because of that. You had Picard the hardass, Riker had the Kirk swagger, Data with Spock's logic, etc. Pulaski felt so much more, well, human than Crusher.

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Pulaski was a welcomed change for me. She brought that much-needed McCoy personality to the bridge, and I felt like she was featured more prominently then, because of that. You had Picard the hardass, Riker had the Kirk swagger, Data with Spock's logic, etc. Pulaski felt so much more, well, human than Crusher.

^

THIS, and.... THIS.

V

Pulaski was a welcomed change for me. She brought that much-needed McCoy personality to the bridge, and I felt like she was featured more prominently then, because of that. You had Picard the hardass, Riker had the Kirk swagger, Data with Spock's logic, etc. Pulaski felt so much more, well, human than Crusher.

Well said, both of you.

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Pulaski was a welcomed change for me. She brought that much-needed McCoy personality to the bridge, and I felt like she was featured more prominently then, because of that. You had Picard the hardass, Riker had the Kirk swagger, Data with Spock's logic, etc. Pulaski felt so much more, well, human than Crusher.

^

THIS, and.... THIS.

V

Pulaski was a welcomed change for me. She brought that much-needed McCoy personality to the bridge, and I felt like she was featured more prominently then, because of that. You had Picard the hardass, Riker had the Kirk swagger, Data with Spock's logic, etc. Pulaski felt so much more, well, human than Crusher.

Well said, both of you.

I don't know. I agree with Happy Russia, but I disagree with Happy Russia.

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Pulaski was a welcomed change for me. She brought that much-needed McCoy personality to the bridge, and I felt like she was featured more prominently then, because of that. You had Picard the hardass, Riker had the Kirk swagger, Data with Spock's logic, etc. Pulaski felt so much more, well, human than Crusher.

^

THIS, and.... THIS.

V

Pulaski was a welcomed change for me. She brought that much-needed McCoy personality to the bridge, and I felt like she was featured more prominently then, because of that. You had Picard the hardass, Riker had the Kirk swagger, Data with Spock's logic, etc. Pulaski felt so much more, well, human than Crusher.

Well said, both of you.

I don't know. I agree with Happy Russia, but I disagree with Happy Russia.

But Happy Russia said it better... :P

Trying to quote Locutus' comment above HR's comment, but I goofed. So.... sue me. :laugh:

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I AM ABSOLUTE, I AM CORRECT AND ALL KNOWING. I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA.

:P

Your quote was so good I had to copy it twice.... :laugh:

And yes, unlimited rice pudding should be the goal of all sentient life forms (even Daleks). :P

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Sim   

Hm, I don't really have an issue with neither Crusher nor McFadden, but think the character is very bland. I prefer Pulaski too.

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She's dullllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!

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She's dullllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!

Hey Robin! Haven't heard from you in awhile.... nice to see your rapier wit is intact. :laugh:

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As stated above - no one hates McFadden. We may be fanboys but we can discern fiction from reality. :P Usually...:P

I have heard that the hatred Crusher has gotten around the forums has led to some of her fans being bothered by it. So it isn't your imagination that Crusher gets an unusual amount of hatred around here. However, that's just this forums. I bet you'll find forums where Janeway or Sisko or McCoy or Worf or whoever getting a disproportionate amount of hatred. I think many people on this forum alone dislike Janeway so much that we barely even talk about her. :P But everyone has their own reason for disliking Crusher.

I personally don't hate the character, but I did find her to be excruciatingly bland. The single parent (which was handled so much better with Sisko and Jake) who had her whiz kid son. That was all they gave her as a plot. Plus the little background she supposedly had with Picard. If they had gone with fan idea that Picard was really Wesley's father - I might have been more intrigued by that. But they didn't. Plus, Crusher was...I hesitate to use this word due to the negative implications...so I apologize if I offend women but...she was so uppity. Like she constantly second guessed the others and ridiculed them for their own choices. It got tiresome to use her in that role. In fact, I've noticed all the doctors have that role. They have to be 100% blindingly good and question any morally grey choices. Granted - I'd want a doctor that cared about me operating on me. But if I was captain and had to deal with that...ugh...

But I also fall in the minority in saying I'm not particularly impressed with Pulaski either. The actress was a TOS alum and she did play all her roles well (in TOS and TNG). But I recognized easily that Pulaski = McCoy rip off. Down to her even being "sassy" with the resident emotionless, but brilliant non-human officer. I guess they thought since McCoy was so popular, that they wanted McCoy part 2. But that didn't really resonate well with me. Although I do wish that Pulaski's departure was better explained and she should have made some cameos later on. Pulaski had her "i question everything" moments too. As I said, I think it's a Star Trek doctor thing.

Plus, most of the other doctors had something interesting attached to them. Bashir = genetic augment, Phlox = alien, EMH = hologram, McCoy = his wit and charm. At least Pulaski could fall back on McCoy mannerisms. Crusher had none of that.

My favorite TNG doctor was Selar. Even though she was only in one episode, but she seemed interesting to me. Plus, Suzie Plakson as a cute Vulcan. :inlove:

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She's dullllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll!

Hey Robin! Haven't heard from you in awhile.... nice to see your rapier wit is intact. :laugh:/>

Sorry I haven't been about. We had some excruciating Internet connection problems for a while (still not entirely solved) and I'd like to blame those but also I've just been super-busy. Which is a good thing to complain about! It's good to 'see' y'all.

On Crusher, I think the consensus view that she's bland and a little too sure of her own views as ship's moral compass is a fair one, especially when TNG is viewed with a more modern sensibility than the one I had at time of original broadcast. I remember liking her ok but always being slightly dubious about some of her pronouncements. What really did it for me was the episode that introduced the Trill as a species, The Host. This was written in a very strange way that I couldn't get to grips with - to my mind, it seemed to reinforce a close-minded attitude and I suspect this colored my perception of the character after that point. I'll hold my hand up to that. Well, the writers could've exploded my perceptions by going the other way with her, but they didn't. I don't think GMcF was ever given anything really exceptional to work with - she was eye candy, to a certain extent but often she seemed to be a mouthpiece for some fairly dodgy philosophical views. This, to me, seemed at odds with the way other characters on the show were written - Picard, Data, Riker, Geordie, even Troi with her somewhat cliched telepathic sensing all seemed much more multi-layered.

I did like Pulaski, but I do agree with the Founder that she was obviously a female McCoy. You could see the producers thinking, well it worked once, why don't we just change the character's gender and keep the crusty attitude? maybe that was what was attempted with Crusher, when she returned, but it nearly always came off as a holier-than-thou chip on her shoulder. What would have been interesting is if they'd brought Pulaski back and had her interact with Crusher and had a difference of opinion. A bit like the episode Ethics, but not boring.

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* Violated a patients' wishes (Worf, in "Ethics")

Probably her worst moment as a physician on the show.

I'll add that she often tormented Picard when it came to the possibility of a relationship. She liked that he had feelings for her a little too much and it wasn't an appealing side to the character.

This is sort of compounded by the fact that she repeatedly and gleefully disregards his authority and does as she pleases In a backhanded way she uses his feelings for her and guilt over the death of Jack to get away with whatever the hell she pleases and then has the gall to dress him down for perfectly reasonable decisions.

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gazomg   

An attractive woman, and decent enough actress, but the problem lay in her character.

Episodes where she made statements like "if there is nothing wrong with me there must be something wrong with the universe" was appalling.

Add in the mother son stuff with the godawful wil wheaton and she was doomed from the get go.

As for falling in love with a ghost , utter trash, even if she did look well, at her age.

always felt she was there to make up the numbers, still, her character as bad as it was was better than that of geordi's, the most boring dull character ever

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Episodes where she made statements like "if there is nothing wrong with me there must be something wrong with the universe" was appalling.

Why, in context, was this apalling? Isn't it just this:

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

But shorter?

with the godawful wil wheaton

I'm assuming you mean Wesley. I didn't love the character, either, but Wheaton, by all accounts, is a pretty stand-up guy.

As for falling in love with a ghost , utter trash, even if she did look well, at her age.

What does looking good for her age have to do with falling in love? If she were less attractive, that would have made it worse somehow?

Beyond that, there is no defense for "Sub Rosa." :)

her character as bad as it was was better than that of geordi's, the most boring dull character ever

Geordi was the ultimate straight man, but I liked him more than Crusher. That said, if there was a love story episode for the boys as bad as "Sub Rosa," it'd have to be "Aquiel" Horrible episode.

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gazomg   

yes, when I said wil i should have stated wesley.

As for character awful writing.

concerning sub rosa, its like oh she is a woman lets take the easy route and stick her in a love story, glam her up a bit and that will do.In terms of trek, it was abysmal.

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