Tal

Alas, poor Tuvix.

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Tal   

So I been rewatching some old episodes and then I get to this one and remember when it became impossible to go on trying to like Captain Janeway. When Voyager got back to Earth, shouldn't she have been put on trial for murder?

And let's face it, Tuvix was a whole lot better more interesting character than either Tuvok or Neelix, strange how each alone = pain in the butt, but put together worked like coffee and cream, mmm.

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I remember the "Wisdom of Solomon" quandary presented by this episode. In the ENT series, "Dear Doctor" and "Sim" told similar stories and raised similar debates among the fans. It's the stuff that makes Trek compelling.

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I think Janeway murdered Tuvix. Plain and simple.

He was a separate being; apart from either Neelix or Tuvok. And he expressly ENJOYED his newfound status. He didn't want to go back. Even the Doctor's ethical program wouldn't allow him to perform the procedure. And I would've been fine with the guest actor playing the role (Tom Wright) for the rest of the series. They could've used the opportunity to shore up some of the other characters, now that 2 characters were essentially one. But that'd be progressive; can't have that, not on VGR. That show was only about maintaining the status quo, and nothing more. Whenever the ship got the hell pounded out of it, it was always pristine by the end of the hour. Whenever they lost a shuttle (or 42 or whatever the insane number was) they always had more, even though we saw from the creation of the Delta Flyer that it took much of the ship's resources to do so.

I'm sorry but with the exception of maybe a dozen episodes (mostly Seven & EMH-centered ones), I really do hate this show.... :thumbdown:

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This was the episode that solidified my hatred for this show and the crew. The entire thing was meant to be kind of a moral decision but it failed dramatically on that aspect. Janeway should have recused herself as she was far too attached to Tuvok to make an impartial decision. On top of that, the only person she confides in? Kes. Neelix's lover/friend/whatever. Wow...I'm sure you'll get a FAIR decision out of those two.

The scene where he is running around the bridge begging for help from the others and they all, in a cowardly way, just stare back at him blankly? Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Trek fans should be revolted by this. Can you imagine Picard killing Tuvix? And to think that DS9 got so much garbage for having "amoral" characters. I'm not surprised that the only good character (outside of Seven of Nine) - The Doctor - rejected Janeway's order to MURDER Tuvix.

It doesn't help that the show was episodic in nature. So it gave the feel that the characters didn't mind what they had done. That they felt like their old happy selves next week. Really creepy vibe.

After that, I knew I could never cite this show as my favorite. It was too disturbing to ignore.

The scariest part are the VOY fans. They get really emotional and upset when you bring up Tuvix. I brought it up in regards to Janeway on Trekcore and I was lambasted by them for doing it and told not to bring that up. I mean, really creepy stuff. Even they recognize this was the ultimate in evil in Trek.

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This was the episode that solidified my hatred for this show and the crew. The entire thing was meant to be kind of a moral decision but it failed dramatically on that aspect. Janeway should have recused herself as she was far too attached to Tuvok to make an impartial decision. On top of that, the only person she confides in? Kes. Neelix's lover/friend/whatever. Wow...I'm sure you'll get a FAIR decision out of those two.

The scene where he is running around the bridge begging for help from the others and they all, in a cowardly way, just stare back at him blankly? Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Trek fans should be revolted by this. Can you imagine Picard killing Tuvix? And to think that DS9 got so much garbage for having "amoral" characters. I'm not surprised that the only good character (outside of Seven of Nine) - The Doctor - rejected Janeway's order to MURDER Tuvix.

It doesn't help that the show was episodic in nature. So it gave the feel that the characters didn't mind what they had done. That they felt like their old happy selves next week. Really creepy vibe.

After that, I knew I could never cite this show as my favorite. It was too disturbing to ignore.

The scariest part are the VOY fans. They get really emotional and upset when you bring up Tuvix. I brought it up in regards to Janeway on Trekcore and I was lambasted by them for doing it and told not to bring that up. I mean, really creepy stuff. Even they recognize this was the ultimate in evil in Trek.

This episode was the beginning (if not the defining moment) for my loathing of VGR as well; particularly the entire crew's (esp Janeway's) moral cowardice.

And you're right; Picard would NEVER have done that. Just as Riker's transporter duplicate was allowed back into Starfleet with no questions asked. The VGR crew probably would've killed Thomas Riker because he "wasn't natural."

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Tal   

:laugh: Agreed compagneros, what the hell were the Voyager writing team thinking of when they let this get to production, Gene Roddenberry must have been turning in the grave. A very hard show to watch... especially rewatch, when you know what's coming, a Starfleet captain behaving so despicably, no one having the guts to stand up for Tuvix's right to live.

That's kind of the weirdest thing about it, the show seems to saying that the only Voyager character with a true 'moral compass' is the doctor, who is a hologram, a facsimile of a human being. I guess that shouldn't really be so surprising as he is by far the most sympathetic and interesting of the show's characters, I'd go so far as to say he saves Voyager, makes it real Star Trek in the end after all. I can't bring myself to say I hate any incarnation of Star Trek (though the new movie series comes damned close - lol). Voyager was occasionally great, sometimes gripping and powerful, frequently entertaining. Just a damn shame about a show like Tuvix.

Tried to embed this great set of clips from Youtube, can't figure out how, lol.

Edited by Tal

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Can you imagine Picard killing Tuvix?

Actually, yes, I can. Picard would have tried to figure a way around the issue, but if he had been forced too (and I'm not meaning peer pressure either), I could see him killing Tuvix.

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Can you imagine Picard killing Tuvix?

Actually, yes, I can. Picard would have tried to figure a way around the issue, but if he had been forced too (and I'm not meaning peer pressure either), I could see him killing Tuvix.

Sorry, but that's WAY out of character for Picard; the TV version, anyway. The movie Picard was more 'action hero' guy, but the truer Picard of the show would NEVER have killed Tuvix. He even kept the Moriarity sentient hologram alive, for chrissakes. Gave him a companion, too.

And you think he would've purposefully killed a new life form?!? You watched a different TNG than I did, my friend...

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Let's all just remember how utterly heartbroken he is when they only accidentally kill that new and intriguing space ravioli creature in "Galaxy's Child". Also, how he allows the alien life form in "Emergence" to grow without offering much interference. That should give the answer.

In short: Jean-Luc would never have killed Tuvix unless the safety of the entire ship had been in danger. Then perhaps, but only as a very last resort.

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Let's all just remember how utterly heartbroken he is when they only accidentally kill that new and intriguing space ravioli creature in "Galaxy's Child". Also, how he allows the alien life form in "Emergence" to grow without offering much interference. That should give the answer.

In short: Jean-Luc would never have killed Tuvix unless the safety of the entire ship had been in danger. Then perhaps, but only as a very last resort.

So true.

He also found a home for the destructive nanites that were literally eating their way thru the computer core. Janeway would've probably tried to gas them like so many termites...

The only reason Janeway killed Tuvix because she wanted her adviser back. It was heartless. He pleaded for his life. Only to have that plea fall on deaf ears...

As I've said before, that is one episode (of many) that cemented by loathing of this worthless show. VGR is only a pale imitation of better STs....

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Can you imagine Picard killing Tuvix?

Actually, yes, I can. Picard would have tried to figure a way around the issue, but if he had been forced too (and I'm not meaning peer pressure either), I could see him killing Tuvix.

I'm generally curious: what from TNG makes you think he would do that?

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Can you imagine Picard killing Tuvix?

Actually, yes, I can. Picard would have tried to figure a way around the issue, but if he had been forced too (and I'm not meaning peer pressure either), I could see him killing Tuvix.

I'm generally curious: what from TNG makes you think he would do that?

Oh, there's the incident from "The Mutiny" in season 2, where he didn't try talking the aliens into leaving the Alpha Quadrant and the bodies of those they took over, he just blasted them. "Starship Mine" he disarmed and killed the intruders by leaving them for the barion sweep. He even made the warp material they had explode when they were flying away. "I, Borg" he had to be talked out of using Hue as a virus carrier to the rest of the Borg Collective. Then there was a gangster in one of his holosuit programs that he talked out of the holosuite to kill him, despite the fact he didn't pose a threat to anyone else. So, indeed, Picard was able to make such choices.

However, he had the benefit of the resources of an entire Federation to get around most issues. Janeway, however, was literally on her own, and so she had to make every call.

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Can you imagine Picard killing Tuvix?

Actually, yes, I can. Picard would have tried to figure a way around the issue, but if he had been forced too (and I'm not meaning peer pressure either), I could see him killing Tuvix.

I'm generally curious: what from TNG makes you think he would do that?

Oh, there's the incident from "The Mutiny" in season 2, where he didn't try talking the aliens into leaving the Alpha Quadrant and the bodies of those they took over, he just blasted them. "Starship Mine" he disarmed and killed the intruders by leaving them for the barion sweep. He even made the warp material they had explode when they were flying away. "I, Borg" he had to be talked out of using Hue as a virus carrier to the rest of the Borg Collective. Then there was a gangster in one of his holosuit programs that he talked out of the holosuite to kill him, despite the fact he didn't pose a threat to anyone else. So, indeed, Picard was able to make such choices.

However, he had the benefit of the resources of an entire Federation to get around most issues. Janeway, however, was literally on her own, and so she had to make every call.

First of all, that episode is called "Conspiracy" and it's a season one episode. The aliens were clearly hostile, as interaction with Remmick proved. ("We seek peaceful coexistence." Well, not so much if you think taking over Starfleet Command and wrecking Starfleet from its very core by blowing up ships of suspicious captains means 'peaceful'.) They created a "it's either you or us" scenario. It was not up to Jean-Luc to try and negotiate with them - they didn't WANT to talk, they wanted to ACT. Their intent was to take over, and there was no way of reasoning with them. Also, Jean-Luc does ask about removing the parasite from Quinn when they detect it, but it proves to be impossible because they would kill Quinn along with it. So, the only thing they CAN do is take up the gauntlet. The entire Federation and life as they know it is at stake. It's like as if the Borg were trying to take over, the aliens only come in a less obvious disguise.

In "Starship Mine" he was trying to prevent hostile intruders from getting away. In your own words, in this episode he is QUITE literally on his own. He has only a few resources available to him because the sweep comes closer and closer. How else is he supposed to stop them from leaving? He's standing in Ten Forward, alone, no transporter power, no weapons, no access to the Enterprise's phasers. Furthermore, the intruders are intent on selling the highly unstable material that is used to create hideous weapons to whoever happens to be interested in it, which might very likely be the Tholians or the Romulans. I do agree that the option of blowing up the ship is a bit extreme but, at that point, it was the only one available to him. He could have tried to get the woman to stay on the Enterprise with him, yes, but she was carrying that canister with that toxic waste product inside. I highly doubt she would have just stood there with him, waiting for the sweep to catch her. She'd have opened it and taken Jean-Luc and the entire ship down with her before she would have allowed herself to be caught. In that moment, it was the only real option available to Jean-Luc. He could hardly have started an ethical debate with her in those few seconds that remained. Also, he doesn't leave ANY of them for the sweep. He neck-pinches "Tuvok" and shoots an arrow drenched with a sedative at another one, but he does state that the guy isn't dead. The other intruder is not killed by him either, he runs into the sweep when he looks for him. The last of the guys is killed by his fellow intruder companion, actually, not by Jean-Luc. He never actually picks up a weapon and kills an intruder in cold blood because that's just not his style.

As for "I Borg", he is clearly not himself in this episode, at least not until he actually talks to Hugh. It's clear to everyone but him that he is acting like a maniac who is intent on only one thing: Revenge for what the Borg did to him. NO one wants to actually carry out his orders after they have gotten to know Hugh - LaForge even confronts him on it and voices his doubts but gets slammed down. Given Jean-Luc's Borg experience, I would say it's completely understandable that he reacts the way he does to Hugh. It's not the calm and rational captain who's speaking when he looks at Hugh with nothing but hatred in his eyes - it's the hurt and vulnerable Jean-Luc inside him speaking who wants to wipe out the Borg no matter what for what they did to him and for what they made him do. One rather short and simple conversation with Hugh convinces him otherwise, however - this is precisely what TNG is supposed to be about. It's not that he follows through with his plan that was only thought of because he was not himself in the first place. It starts from the very beginning when he is told that there is a Borg survivor, actually. His face becomes a mask and he becomes a hatred-filled maniac.

I assume you're referring to Cyrus Redblock in "The Big Goodbye"? He's not tricking him into leaving the holodeck. Redblock himself wants to go out and see a "whole new world to plunder". Besides, Redblock is nothing more than a non-sentient hologram. You can hardly call that "killing". (His reaction towards SENTIENT holograms is more evident in "Ship In A Bottle" when he tries to convince Moriarty NOT to leave the holodeck at the beginning of the episode AND in "Elementary, Dear Data" when he actually allows Moriarty to REMAIN instead of simply deleting him. I would say these actions speak for themselves.) Furthermore, I doubt Redblock is actually "dead". His non-sentient holodeck character can probably be restarted at any given point from the information that is in the computer. It won't just "forget" about Redblock, he's an essential Dixon Hill novel character, after all. (Same goes for Leech.) Also, Data does try to warn Redblock when he wants to go out. Still, Redblock is just a non-sentient hologram, nothing more, same goes for Leech who goes with him. There is no real harm done.

But you are right - he WAS able to make life or death choices. Which is something that EVERY captain HAS to be capable of. Otherwise the whole thing won't work in the first place. A captain always has to balance on a very thin line, and I for one see nothing wrong with the choices Jean-Luc made above. Besides, in every single one except for the holodeck example the ship or the Federation or both were in danger, immediate (aliens & the intruders) or general (the Borg). One can hardly fault him for making those particular decisions, except for the one in "I Borg", but he DID make the right choice at the end. (Even if Nechayev doesn't agree and neither does Starfleet Command, I guess. He would have had nothing to fear from them if he had followed through with his plan to use Hugh as a killing machine. A lot of fans actually also think he should have gone through with his plan. But then, that would not have been very Picard-ish. Sounds more like something Janeway would do, actually.)

Also, I cannot recall the ship or the Federation being in danger when Janeway decides to "split up" Tuvix. It's an entirely different situation IMO.

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Also, I cannot recall the ship or the Federation being in danger when Janeway decides to "split up" Tuvix. It's an entirely different situation IMO.

Exactly!

There was no 'threat' from Tuvix at all.

Picard would NOT have killed him. Picard himself has never casually killed anyone; he only does so when his life, his crew's lives or Starfleet itself are threatened (as Mr. Picard meticulously illustrated).

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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I get what you're saying, Admiral Haron. I do see moments where Picard can resort to violence. And he is a fighter. But all the examples you listed was never a person begging for their lives. He even offered Ru'afo a chance to come with him. Soran....he tried to talk down before any fighting.

Tuvix is different from any other example because he was NEVER an enemy. He didn't ask to be made. He also pleaded for his life. What I meant when I asked if a person could imagine Picard doing what Janeway did was "can you imagine Picard executing someone who begged to not be killed?" There is no way anyone could imagine that. I couldn't imagine Sisko doing that either despite the rep of his character being more "grey" and amoral.

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I couldn't imagine Sisko doing that either despite the rep of his character being more "grey" and amoral.

True.

Even when Sisko lied and coerced the Romulans into joining their war against the Dominion, it was because his back was against the wall. It was that, or see the entire Alpha Quadrant fall (eventually even the Romulans would've been overtaken, and Sisko knew that). I'm not for preemptive wars (god knows Iraq should've taught a few lessons), but this was more of a WW2-type conflict (a wide arena); not a skirmish or single enemy conflict.

Tuvix (or Neelok? :giggle: ) was murdered. Plain and simple. RIP Tuvix (who, when combined, was a more interesting character than either one, IMO).... :(

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I get what you're saying, Admiral Haron. I do see moments where Picard can resort to violence. And he is a fighter. But all the examples you listed was never a person begging for their lives. He even offered Ru'afo a chance to come with him. Soran....he tried to talk down before any fighting.

Admiral Haron huh? Perhaps I'll change my name to that in the future. :giggle: Now, don't get me wrong, Tuvix was indeed murdered. And this was more or less over the objections of most people. Most people preferred Tuvix over the ramrod Tuvok and the bad cooking of Neelix. Even if they wouldn't stand up for him in the end "Because Janeway is the Captain".

And personally, I think Tuvix was a better character than both of those characters combined (pardon the pun :P ).

All I'm saying is that Picard isn't the marble-statue hero he's been made out to be. The never get angry, never kill, never hate, never yell man. He definitely had his moments, and if he had been in the same situation and it was the best for everyone involved, he would have done the same. In the end, there was no way to save Tuvix while saving Tuvok and Neelix. For all Tuvix prattling about "they live in me", in the end: they were both dead. Does the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many scenario.

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All I'm saying is that Picard isn't the marble-statue hero he's been made out to be. The never get angry, never kill, never hate, never yell man. He definitely had his moments, and if he had been in the same situation and it was the best for everyone involved, he would have done the same. In the end, there was no way to save Tuvix while saving Tuvok and Neelix. For all Tuvix prattling about "they live in me", in the end: they were both dead. Does the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many scenario.

Of course Jean-Luc gets angry. Of course he yells. Of course he isn't a marble statue. No one ever said he was anything like that. All we've been saying is that he wouldn't have killed Tuvix. He would have left the entire decision up to Tuvix. He would not have assumed the audacity to be judge, jury and executioner of another living being. What gives Janeway the right, anyway? She is simply a Starfleet captain, not even related to either Tuvok or Neelix. She claims it's because she "has to speak for Tuvok and Neelix" while in reality it's only because she wants both of them back. She once more bases her actions on her own personal selfish motives and in this case she even MURDERS someone just because they don't fit into her plans. And THAT is something Jean-Luc would NEVER do, especially not if a new life form was involved. Furthermore, he's not a Vulcan. He doesn't ALWAYS base everything on the "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" scenario. Especially not in a case like this. He would probably say something like "I refuse to let Vulcan dogma dictate the way a new life form is being treated".

Let me just quote from the episode:

"Look at me, Captain. When I'm happy, I laugh. When I'm sad, I cry. When I stub my toe, I yell out in pain. I'm flesh and blood, and I have the right to live."

Jean-Luc would NEVER EVER have gone against something this if he had been in Janeway's situation. Never. You don't need to be a marble hero statue for this. You just need to be a human being.

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Does the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many scenario.

It's ironic that 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few' is your argument for defending the murder of Tuvix, since we see time and time again in ST how that 'rule' is broken multiple times. Spock broke it to get Pike to Talos IV in "The Menagerie", Kirk & crew mutinied to retrieve Spock's body on Genesis in "Star Trek III", in the wretched STID, Kirk disobeys the Prime Directive to save Spock in the volcano. Picard broke it in FC to retrieve Data from the Borg queen and also in INS to save the Baku village. I think that's the whole point of that "Vulcan" expression (as it was revealed to be in ENT; even though thematically in TWOK it came from Dickens). Rules are meant to be BROKEN. Sometimes, as both Kirk pointed out in STIII and Spock's mother did likewise in TVH, the good of the one outweighs the good of the many at times... you can't be married to a rule book. Life is a constant revolving door of special cases and exceptions to the rules.

There was no need (nor threat) that should've motivated Janeway to kill Tuvix; other than to maintain the status quo. Both Neelix and Tuvok were alive in this new life form; they were accepting the situation. It benefitted both. Next Janeway will be forcibly removing symbionts out of Trill officers because having a parasite inside inside your body joining minds with you is 'unnatural.'

Here's hoping Ezri Dax never gets posted to work for Adm. Janeway....

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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Does the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many scenario.

It's ironic that 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few' is your argument for defending the murder of Tuvix, since we see time and time again in ST how that 'rule' is broken multiple times. Spock broke it to get Pike to Talos IV in "The Menagerie", Kirk & crew mutinied to retrieve Spock's body on Genesis in "Star Trek III", in the wretched STID, Kirk disobeys the Prime Directive to save Spock in the volcano. Picard broke it in FC to retrieve Data from the Borg queen and also in INS to save the Baku village. I think that's the whole point of that "Vulcan" expression (as it was revealed to be in ENT; even though thematically in TWOK it came from Dickens). Rules are meant to be BROKEN. Sometimes, as both Kirk pointed out in STIII and Spock's mother did likewise in TVH, the good of the one outweighs the good of the many at times... you can't be married to a rule book. Life is a constant revolving door of special cases and exceptions to the rules.

There was no need (nor threat) that should've motivated Janeway to kill Tuvix; other than to maintain the status quo. Both Neelix and Tuvok were alive in this new life form; they were accepting the situation. It benefitted both. Next Janeway will be forcibly removing symbionts out of Trill officers because having a parasite inside inside your body joining minds with you is 'unnatural.'

Here's hoping Ezri Dax never gets posted to work for Adm. Janeway....

My dear friend, you yet again mistake my intentions. I am not defending the murder of Tuvix. I was pointing out why I think Picard might have made a similar choice to Janeway, in response to everyone's fawning over the perfect Jean-Luc. At least one of us needs to play Devil's Advocate. ;)

I never have believed that Tuvix deserved to die, since he was a better cook and tactical officer than either Tuvok or Neelix. ALl around, he was probably a better person, and I am sure we wouldn't have had the Season 7 mishap of the Maquis insurrection episode in Tuvix was around.

In all actuality, I think Janeway got pushed over the edge by Kes' emotinal breakdown when he pulled her into the argument. When I watch the episode, it always feel like she was actually half considering Tuvix's "I have a right to live" speech, until Kes came in crying. And then she went, "Oh no you just didn't!" and punished Tuvix for it.

Edited by Admiral Harmon

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My dear friend, you yet again mistake my intentions. I am not defending the murder of Tuvix. I was pointing out why I think Picard might have made a similar choice to Janeway, in response to everyone's fawning over the perfect Jean-Luc. At least one of us needs to play Devil's Advocate. ;)

NOTHING in TNG to date (not even the movies) show this to be the case.

* He allowed Tom Riker to live; even if he was a knockoff of his XO.

* He allowed a potentially dangerous offshoot of the Enterprise ("Emergence") to live.

* He allowed himself to be shot by a Mintanken arrow just to prove he was mortal ("Who Watches the Watchers?")

The action you attribute to this character is just WRONG. I don't know how else to convince you (Mr Picard had a very precise argument; his logic was flawless). Yes, Picard is no god (see last point), but he has NEVER killed another life form indiscriminately (the creature that died in "Galaxy's Child" was killed accidentally, and Picard mourned appropriately). Especially when NO lives were at danger. Find me a precedent for your argument and I'll listen, but playing devil's advocate is only effective when one has a solid counterargument.

I tell you yet again: Picard would NOT have killed Tuvix. Nothing in his character or in the show to date indicates otherwise.

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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I think what is being confused here is generally being capable of making a decision like the one Janeway did with Tuvix if the stakes are high enough and actually making it in a non-life-and-death situation.

Jean-Luc is capable of making life-or-death decisions, there are dozens of moments on TNG when he makes them and none of them is pleasant for him, I'm sure. But it is what he was trained to do - if the stakes are high enough, meaning if the ship is threatened, the lives of the crew are at stake or even the Federation itself. Then he is capable of making the most gruesome decisions, just as he was trained to do. He knows that this comes with commanding a starship, and it never gets easy and every single one haunts him. It's the ugly and dark side of being a starship captain, something that people often overlook because they only see the glory and the fame that comes with it. However, it is just as much a part of being a starship captain as ordering the ship to discover new worlds and new civilizations, and it can neither be dismissed as trivial nor shrugged off just like that. It is something that whoever gets close to that captain has to take into account and accept - it is an immense burden.

Still, in this particular case with Tuvix, no one is threatened. There is a new life form that is admittedly the result of an accident, but, nevertheless, a new life form. Jean-Luc would have been capable of ordering Tuvix' death - if Tuvix had tried to take over the ship or if he had been allied with the Borg and had tried to lead the ship into a trap or whatever other sinister plan there is and if there had been no other option than to kill him right that second because everyone else's lives depended on it. Then he would have done it, most likely even all by himself. Because, in that case, in such a scenario, the needs of the many really do outweigh the needs of the few or the one. (If you want to go down that example road. I could just as easily say "the good of the ship and the lives if its crew outweigh the good of the person who tries to destroy both".)

However, there was no such situation. Tuvix was no threat. He was a new life form. It was not necessary to make a life-or-death decision, and it most certainly wasn't Janeway's place to do it either. What Jean-Luc has and what Janeway obviously lacks or rather, deliberately disregards, is a fundamental respect for new life forms. As I said, Jean-Luc would have left everything up to Tuvix. He would have consulted both Tuvix and Crusher, and he would have listened to what they have to say about everything. (As much I detest Crusher, I definitely can't see her going through with such a medical procedure either. In fact, I think the TNG crew -minus Worf, maybe,I'm not sure about him- would've mutinied if Jean-Luc had ordered Tuvix' death just like that.)

/preachy speech

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Yes, he is capable of such life/death decisions, but as you say, only when there is a danger to ship/crew.

If I were the EMH, I'd want to learn MORE about how successful was the integration between Tuvok & Neelix? That's amazing that a copper-based blooded creature would so successfully integrate with a life-form all the way out in the Delta quadrant! And since Neelix had one of Kes' lungs, it'd really be a combination of THREE species! He's utterly NEW. What traits of either species' have become dominant, and which have become recessive? I'd want to get several pints of his unique blood in case of emergencies. How does he perceive the world? Is he capable of Vulcan mental discipline? What are his physiological faculties? For an accident, it was remarkably successful. As we've seen in TOS/TMP and TNG, transporter malfunctions don't usually have such interesting results.

I'd have a MILLION questions before I'd allow Janeway to walk in and just murder him...

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Just be careful that you wouldn't start to view him as some kind of medical miracle specimen only, lol. ;) I do get what you're saying, though.

I also find it curious that the EMH didn't overrule Janeway's command, he 'only' refused to throw the switch, so to speak. He could have done that as Chief Medical Officer. He could have said that he wants to study Tuvix further or whatever other excuse and she would have been powerless to prevent it. I can totally see ANY of the other doctors stepping in here if their respective captain had just basically ordered the death of one of their patients.

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