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Sehlat Vie

Why TAS should not be so easily dismissed (and why it may even deserve a bit of love)...

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No, I think you might have misunderstood me. :(

No, I didn't; you misunderstood me. ;) But that's okay; we're in agreement so often that a little misunderstanding is actually almost fun. :laugh:

I was agreeing with you that the original voices in the existing episodes of TAS should NOT be changed; our only area of difference was that I thought that if new episodes were made, it was more important to get the personalities to match, whereas you focused on matching the voices.

Clear now? :TOScomm:

vlcsnap-2011-02-14-01h04m48s78.png << "We reach!" :thumbup:

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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I dont think Star Trek The Animated Series should get the hate it gets. Its the only trek series i fully own. It was for kids people!! Its stories may have had bad science, and the animation may have been lacking(Lets face it, FILMATION SUCKED, but we still love He-Man and She-Ra), but I thought it had great stories to tell. And for some reason it kept me interested. I did not get to see the Animated series until I actually bought it on sale at Walmart for $15.

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I dont think Star Trek The Animated Series should get the hate it gets. Its the only trek series i fully own. It was for kids people!! Its stories may have had bad science, and the animation may have been lacking(Lets face it, FILMATION SUCKED, but we still love He-Man and She-Ra), but I thought it had great stories to tell. And for some reason it kept me interested. I did not get to see the Animated series until I actually bought it on sale at Walmart for $15.

I bought mine at a used music store for about the same. Traded in a few older DVDs of mine as well (I'm a bit of a Ferengi sometimes when it comes to bargain hunting... :Ferengi: ). But even if I hadn't found it so cheap, I would've bought it anyway (sooner or later). And yes, it was for kids but the stories were FAR more sophisticated than anything else offered for children at the time. It was like Shakespeare compared to some of the other crap we used to see on TV when I was little.

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Hey Sehlat Vie (btw, are you okay with me calling you just "Sehlat" or "Vie", and which one do you prefer?)!

I have a peculiar relation to TAS. I don't really connect nostalgic feelings with it, because when I was a kid, the only version available in Germany was a totally butchered dubbed version (WITHOUT the original voice actors from TOS, cut down to ca. 14 minutes per episode and totally changed dialogues) which even for me as a kid in love with TOS was totally unwatchable.

In 1994, a new, uncut version was released on VHS with the original German voice actors. But I didn't have the money to buy it all, since two episodes on one tape cost DM 30 or 40 -- way too much for my age. So I only came to see it for the first time in 1997/98, considerably older now, and not exactly the target age group anymore.

Now I am totally in love with the German voice actors of TOS. They're incredibly nostalgic for me. And I'm fascinated by the history of the German dubbing of TOS (39 episodes in 1972/73, another 39 episodes in 1987, "Patterns of Force" in 1995). So this "official" dubbed version of TAS fascinated me too because of it.

I kind of like it, but there are two things that annoy the hell out of me about TAS:

1) The music. It's just ONE single theme which is played over and over again in every episode in every kind of scene. That makes it impossible for me to stand watching more than one or two episodes in a row.

2) The animation which, maybe good for the early 70s, is totally outdated and cheesy for today's standards (or even late 90s standards already).

These two things kind of spoil TAS for me, although I really like several of their stories (like the Guardian/young Spock story, or when McCoy is accused of murder).

So my proposal is: Take the old voice dubbing, but re-animate the entire series and write new, more diversified music. Then chances are I'd love it. :)

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Hey Sehlat Vie (btw, are you okay with me calling you just "Sehlat" or "Vie", and which one do you prefer?)!

I have a peculiar relation to TAS. I don't really connect nostalgic feelings with it, because when I was a kid, the only version available in Germany was a totally butchered dubbed version (WITHOUT the original voice actors from TOS, cut down to ca. 14 minutes per episode and totally changed dialogues) which even for me as a kid in love with TOS was totally unwatchable.

In 1994, a new, uncut version was released on VHS with the original German voice actors. But I didn't have the money to buy it all, since two episodes on one tape cost DM 30 or 40 -- way too much for my age. So I only came to see it for the first time in 1997/98, considerably older now, and not exactly the target age group anymore.

Now I am totally in love with the German voice actors of TOS. They're incredibly nostalgic for me. And I'm fascinated by the history of the German dubbing of TOS (39 episodes in 1972/73, another 39 episodes in 1987, "Patterns of Force" in 1995). So this "official" dubbed version of TAS fascinated me too because of it.

I kind of like it, but there are two things that annoy the hell out of me about TAS:

1) The music. It's just ONE single theme which is played over and over again in every episode in every kind of scene. That makes it impossible for me to stand watching more than one or two episodes in a row.

2) The animation which, maybe good for the early 70s, is totally outdated and cheesy for today's standards (or even late 90s standards already).

These two things kind of spoil TAS for me, although I really like several of their stories (like the Guardian/young Spock story, or when McCoy is accused of murder).

So my proposal is: Take the old voice dubbing, but re-animate the entire series and write new, more diversified music. Then chances are I'd love it. :)

If you ever found a subtitled version somehow, I'd strongly advise you give it another try.

I realize that subs aren't everyone's cup of tea, but for me they're the only way I can really enjoy any foreign language film/TV show. It maintains the integrity of the production.

And yes, I agree about the reuse of music and the less-than-stellar cheap '70s animation, but for me I grew up watching TAS in the mornings, and then TOS reruns later on in the evenings. Having the same actors' voices gave it an even stronger TOS continuity for me. It just felt like 'bite-sized' versions of TOS, but very much a different aspect of the same show. The stories are very close to the level of quality in ST's third season; there are even a few genuine classics in the bunch.

So while I agree with the series' shortcomings, I prefer to watch them for the voices of the original actors, and for the more surreal, unbridled stories (the animation format allowed many things that the series or even the movies just couldn't, for budgetary reasons). I love TAS and just wish that someday, they do a remastered version in all-new animation (even in the style of BBC's lost Doctor Who episodes), using TOS music cues.

doctor_who_ice_warriors_dvd_1.jpg << An animated still from a completed 'missing' segment of Doctor Who's "The Ice Warriors"

That'd be this old Trekkies biggest Christmas wish... :thumbup:

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Hey Sehlat Vie (btw, are you okay with me calling you just "Sehlat" or "Vie", and which one do you prefer?)!

I have a peculiar relation to TAS. I don't really connect nostalgic feelings with it, because when I was a kid, the only version available in Germany was a totally butchered dubbed version (WITHOUT the original voice actors from TOS, cut down to ca. 14 minutes per episode and totally changed dialogues) which even for me as a kid in love with TOS was totally unwatchable.

In 1994, a new, uncut version was released on VHS with the original German voice actors. But I didn't have the money to buy it all, since two episodes on one tape cost DM 30 or 40 -- way too much for my age. So I only came to see it for the first time in 1997/98, considerably older now, and not exactly the target age group anymore.

Now I am totally in love with the German voice actors of TOS. They're incredibly nostalgic for me. And I'm fascinated by the history of the German dubbing of TOS (39 episodes in 1972/73, another 39 episodes in 1987, "Patterns of Force" in 1995). So this "official" dubbed version of TAS fascinated me too because of it.

I kind of like it, but there are two things that annoy the hell out of me about TAS:

1) The music. It's just ONE single theme which is played over and over again in every episode in every kind of scene. That makes it impossible for me to stand watching more than one or two episodes in a row.

2) The animation which, maybe good for the early 70s, is totally outdated and cheesy for today's standards (or even late 90s standards already).

These two things kind of spoil TAS for me, although I really like several of their stories (like the Guardian/young Spock story, or when McCoy is accused of murder).

So my proposal is: Take the old voice dubbing, but re-animate the entire series and write new, more diversified music. Then chances are I'd love it. :)

If you ever found a subtitled version somehow, I'd strongly advise you give it another try.

I realize that subs aren't everyone's cup of tea, but for me they're the only way I can really enjoy any foreign language film/TV show. It maintains the integrity of the production.

Oh, I totally agree with you when it comes to TNG to ENT, or other movies and series. When I watch new movies or series for the first time, I usually watch the original English version (sometimes with English subs, when there is slang or so). Especially Stewart's and Brooks' acting is severely hampered by the German dubbing and the original is SOOO much better (which I can enjoy, fortunately, thanks to the DVDs/BDs which include the original language version plus subs in various languages).

It's just that I totally love the German voice dubbing of TOS. Maybe it even makes 50% of my nostalgia for TOS. I watched the series once in English, just for the sake of it, but still much prefer the German dubbing.

Oh, and I have TAS on DVD too, including the English original version. It's just that the original German voice actors in the uncut redubbed version (the same voice actors as in TOS) make it much more interesting for me. ;)

And yes, I agree about the reuse of music and the less-than-stellar cheap '70s animation, but for me I grew up watching TAS in the mornings, and then TOS reruns later on in the evenings. Having the same actors' voices gave it an even stronger TOS continuity for me. It just felt like 'bite-sized' versions of TOS, but very much a different aspect of the same show. The stories are very close to the level of quality in ST's third season; there are even a few genuine classics in the bunch.

Probably I should rewatch it again soon. :)

So while I agree with the series' shortcomings, I prefer to watch them for the voices of the original actors, and for the more surreal, unbridled stories (the animation format allowed many things that the series or even the movies just couldn't, for budgetary reasons). I love TAS and just wish that someday, they do a remastered version in all-new animation (even in the style of BBC's lost Doctor Who episodes), using TOS music cues.

doctor_who_ice_warriors_dvd_1.jpg << An animated still from a completed 'missing' segment of Doctor Who's "The Ice Warriors"

That'd be this old Trekkies biggest Christmas wish... :thumbup:

Sold! I take it! ;)

Have yet to get into Doctor Who ...

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Here's hoping you can rewatch it soon (and even more hoping that you enjoy it!). ;)

Are you okay with me calling you just "Sehlat" or "Vie", and which one do you prefer?

As for what to call me? Sehlat is fine, thanks. :)

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Dude, in my book, TAS is canon.

Richard Arnold, the guy who came with this dogma when he was Roddenberry's assistant, dont work on Paramount for more than 2 decades. Its time to make the novels and TAS into official Trek.

Best,

Gus

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Dude, in my book, TAS is canon.

Richard Arnold, the guy who came with this dogma when he was Roddenberry's assistant, dont work on Paramount for more than 2 decades. Its time to make the novels and TAS into official Trek.

Best,

Gus

In my book, any fiction that is not contradicted on-screen is part of the canon. :)

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Dude, in my book, TAS is canon.

Richard Arnold, the guy who came with this dogma when he was Roddenberry's assistant, dont work on Paramount for more than 2 decades. Its time to make the novels and TAS into official Trek.

Best,

Gus

In my book, any fiction that is not contradicted on-screen is part of the canon. :)

I think I love you two.... :inlove::P

tumblr_lq92xkXeGw1qj0zk3o1_400.gif

You know how RARE it is to hear a Star Trek fan with an open-enough mind to even say those words??

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Dude, in my book, TAS is canon.

Richard Arnold, the guy who came with this dogma when he was Roddenberry's assistant, dont work on Paramount for more than 2 decades. Its time to make the novels and TAS into official Trek.

Best,

Gus

In my book, any fiction that is not contradicted on-screen is part of the canon. :)

I think I love you two.... :inlove::P

tumblr_lq92xkXeGw1qj0zk3o1_400.gif

You know how RARE it is to hear a Star Trek fan with an open-enough mind to even say those words??

Glad I could make you happy! :)

Btw, in case you read the novels too, David R. George III agrees with us in his IMO brilliant "Crucible" trilogy ... in these novels, the TAS events are canon too (though some will say his novels aren't canon either).

But I'm not so open-minded after all... I absolutely refuse to accept the Shatnerverse as canon. Hardly ever read such absurd Trek novels that made me so angry. Mosly because Shatner is not writing about Kirk, but about Shatner.

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Dude, in my book, TAS is canon.

Richard Arnold, the guy who came with this dogma when he was Roddenberry's assistant, dont work on Paramount for more than 2 decades. Its time to make the novels and TAS into official Trek.

Best,

Gus

In my book, any fiction that is not contradicted on-screen is part of the canon. :)

I think I love you two.... :inlove::P

tumblr_lq92xkXeGw1qj0zk3o1_400.gif

You know how RARE it is to hear a Star Trek fan with an open-enough mind to even say those words??

Glad I could make you happy! :)

Btw, in case you read the novels too, David R. George III agrees with us in his IMO brilliant "Crucible" trilogy ... in these novels, the TAS events are canon too (though some will say his novels aren't canon either).

But I'm not so open-minded after all... I absolutely refuse to accept the Shatnerverse as canon. Hardly ever read such absurd Trek novels that made me so angry. Mosly because Shatner is not writing about Kirk, but about Shatner.

Oh no no no!! I agree! I've read four of them, and the Shatnerverse novels are where I say....

tumblr_loo9g6HWUz1qlctfho1_500.gif

They are indulgent, fannish crap. Having Kirk be everyone's BFF in the 24th century? I cry bulls#It. Not to mention his ridiculous novels where the 24th century just can't seem to do ANYTHING right without him (I accepted that once in GEN... never again; he died, remember?!? The Borg would NEVER resurrect Kirk...). Most of Shatner's books are just never-ending cycles of "run, get captured, bluff, escape... then repeat." Other than a few moments of inane self-indulgence, they pretty much just follow that cycle.

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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*catches up on thread*

I just watched an episode of TAS on Netflix. I used to have a few VHS copies of that show. While it has that 70s cheesy aspect to it, I still love it. The animation (in my stubborn opinion) is better than that *rattles cane* stuff you see in cartoons today.

However, that screenshot of that Dr. Who cartoon (I don't watch Dr. Who or anything) looks good. I wouldn't mind seeing a TOS animated series with another crew in that style (as long as they ignored JJ-verse).

This makes me want to draw a TAS something...

As for the books, there are only a few Star Trek books I enjoyed. The rest turned the TOS crew into unrealistic Gary Stus and Mary Sues who were fighting crime at the prime age of 120 along side [ insert other series here ].

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I recently started watching TAS and I really like it, as I said before it explores things that were left hanging in TOS.

I haven't read the whole thread (but I'm planning on doing it), only some of the first posts but in my opinion the fact that some movie or cartoon has bad effects or bad music isn't a good reason to say it is a bad thing, what about the story and what they have to say? If that was the case no one would watch TOS ever again 'cause the effects in some episodes are awful, who cares? it's the story what matters. So I think people should at least give TAS a chance, then they can talk.

On the other hand, if you say: well I don't watch 'cause I'm not into any cartoons, that'd be okay but you should give it a try anyways 'cause... I'm not into any cartoons either and here I am :)

Edited by notaplayer83

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Hey, Sehlat, I saw this and thought of you:

http://rm-startrekanimated.blogspot.com/2014/03/thoughts-on-animated-series-tas.html

I don't know if you've seen this or not, but if not, I thought you'd be interested.

Thanks Corylea!

No, I hadn't read that before, and I pretty much agree with it. Yes, TAS has some astonishingly bad episodes, just as TOS, TNG, VGR et al all have. And it also has a few amazingly good ones that contribute richly to overall ST lore ("Yesteryear" "Slaver Weapon" "Pirates of Orion" etc). It introduced such later ST staple ideas as the holodeck and even had a shuttle that could go underwater (long before STID had the idiotic idea to submerge the whole damn ship!).

To me? It's legit... ;)

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