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How Would You Improve Next Generation?

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Zef'No   
Logically the role of doctor/counsellor could be combined.

Actually, I always thought it incredibly unrealistic to have one single "Chief Medical Officer" on a ship with over 1000 people (or varying species and ages) onboard, who does everything from minor first aid and house calls to alien triage and major surgery, not to mention all the admin that must go with it all (she even acted as a veterinarian)!

In reality you have different specialists; you don't go to the same person for heart surgery as you would for having a baby!

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Yeah but TNG was a continuation, not a reboot of TOS (despite its VERY TOS-ish first season, lol). But essentially you're right, of course - why bother with rebooting the sequel series when your reboot of the original one is going somewhat well and brings in money, more money than a TNG reboot ever would...

And bottom line; it's always about the money.... ;-)

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Logically the role of doctor/counsellor could be combined.

Actually, I always thought it incredibly unrealistic to have one single "Chief Medical Officer" on a ship with over 1000 people (or varying species and ages) onboard, who does everything from minor first aid and house calls to alien triage and major surgery, not to mention all the admin that must go with it all (she even acted as a veterinarian)!

In reality you have different specialists; you don't go to the same person for heart surgery as you would for having a baby!

Maybe they could have a ship's psychiatrist, but a counselor? Just seems redundant and useless (as Troi often was); a psychiatrist could at least practice medicine in an emergency situation...

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Hammer   

I agree that a TNG reboot movie has virtually no chance of ever happening. I'm 33, so growing up TNG was the series that introduced me to Star Trek. The funny thing is, that for how iconic the TOS characters are, the TV series itself was never as successful as TNG was. It almost got cancelled after season 2. They squeezed out a third season, but they got cancelled before they could do a proper series finale. The movies kept them alive in the public's memory, with WoK being probably the best Trek filmed, movie or TV. As much as TNG fans like First Contact, it never became part of pop culture references like WoK did. What worked well for TNG as a TV series, Picard's diplomacy, a large ensemble cast, actually hindered it from being translated to the big screen.

None of the three other spin-offs even compared to the success that TNG had. I know DS9 has fans here, but I wasn't one of them. I appreciated it expanding on TNG cannon and also showing a different slice of life in the Federation aboard a stationary space station. Multi-episode arcs like the Dominion War were rewarding for regular viewers but made it harder for a casual watcher of the show to follow what was going on. I didn't like Kira at all and rooted against her, and I didn't connect with Sisko, Odo or the religion-heavy episodes. Quark was the only DS9 character I liked besides the TNG transplants.

Voyager was mediocre from the premise on out. Enterprise suffered from the same problems other prequels have had story-wise, and had bad writing and producing to boot. The war on terror parallels were too much of a turn-off. There are some episodes of Enterprise I still haven't watched.

I think there is room for another Star Trek series once the focus is off the TOS reboot movies, which I don't think will make it past 3 or 4 movies anyway. Once the novelty of seeing the characters again wears off, they actually have to tell an interesting story, and they haven't done that yet. Maybe they will with Into the Darkness because they don't have to spend half the movie introducing the characters with back stories, but I'm skeptical.

If they do launch a new spin-off though, they can't go the prequel route or the TOS era route, they should set it further ahead in time than any other series. They should stick with the formula that made TNG successful: Stay true to cannon and reference it every once in a while and there needs to be a ship named 'Enterprise'. The CGI will have advanced significantly since the last series, so they need to take advantage of that with better ship combat scenes, more realistic space anomalies that pop on HDTVs etc.

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Logically the role of doctor/counsellor could be combined.

Actually, I always thought it incredibly unrealistic to have one single "Chief Medical Officer" on a ship with over 1000 people (or varying species and ages) onboard, who does everything from minor first aid and house calls to alien triage and major surgery, not to mention all the admin that must go with it all (she even acted as a veterinarian)!

In reality you have different specialists; you don't go to the same person for heart surgery as you would for having a baby!

Maybe they could have a ship's psychiatrist, but a counselor? Just seems redundant and useless (as Troi often was); a psychiatrist could at least practice medicine in an emergency situation...

Troi WAS a psychiatrist. Studied psychology at the university on Betazed. (Which makes the tragedy of how they treated her character even worse, I guess.)

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Logically the role of doctor/counsellor could be combined.

Actually, I always thought it incredibly unrealistic to have one single "Chief Medical Officer" on a ship with over 1000 people (or varying species and ages) onboard, who does everything from minor first aid and house calls to alien triage and major surgery, not to mention all the admin that must go with it all (she even acted as a veterinarian)!

In reality you have different specialists; you don't go to the same person for heart surgery as you would for having a baby!

Maybe they could have a ship's psychiatrist, but a counselor? Just seems redundant and useless (as Troi often was); a psychiatrist could at least practice medicine in an emergency situation...

Troi WAS a psychiatrist. Studied psychology at the university on Betazed. (Which makes the tragedy of how they treated her character even worse, I guess.)

Psychology and psychiatry are technically different degrees of the same field; a psychology degree means she can counsel, but is not allowed to dispense medicine. A psychiatric degree usually involves an MD as well; meaning, in effect, she could be a 2nd ship's doctor, and we clearly see she is not. Troi can practice psychotherapy (like her useless 'plexing' technique) but only a psychiatrist could (legally) prescribe medication. Troi is not a psychiatrist; and I think that's probably a good thing, too; one incompetent doctor aboard the Enterprise D is quite enough. Any more, and they'd have to turn the shuttlebays into extra morgues.... :P

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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ROFL! But we don't know how this is handled in the 24th century... I mean what does this actually mean in practical terms? That people have to go to CRUSHER in order to get their medication? Because I seriously doubt Crusher is capable of determining mental illnesses or anything else in that regard, much less capable of prescribing a proper amount of medication or anything. Remember how she freaked out because of Jono? "HE WAS MISTREATED OMG OMG OMG SOMEONE CALL THE INTERGALACTIC POLICE JEAN-LUUUUUC YOU HAVE TO DOOOO SOMETHIIIING" - while being aware of the POSSIBLITIES in this sad regard is GOOD, OVERREACTING about it and screaming at everyone that the boy has been mistreated while he actually GREW UP AS A TALARIAN is NOT (there we go again, imposing her own human values on alien cultures, just because the boy LOOKS human doesn't mean he IS human, he is a Talarian because he grew up as one and is one of them now, how hard is that to understand)...

Bottom line: Make Guinan the counselor and get Pulaski back. Problems solved. ;)

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On the issue of how many doctors there are, I'm pretty sure that the ENT-D had more than one. Wasn't there a Vulcan doctor? And I think in the Trekverse, the singular CMO does do it all: open-heart surgeries AND deliver babies. In DS9, Bashir implied he did work with pediatrics but he also was seen constantly doing major surgeries. I'm going to guess human beings in the 24th century are SUPER smart and can do all of that? :P :P :P

As for what would improve TNG? Pretend Insurrection and Nemesis never happened.

As for TNG the show? Hmmm...Less Troi stating stupid obvious things (The ENT-D is getting attacked and she states "I sense hostility...", Worf being smacked around or having his idea shot down (there is a youtube video of like twenty minutes worth of a few second clips with Picard and co. telling Worf "no!" to every idea he brings up. No wonder he left to DS9), explain why Guinan is such a terrifying person to a Q, more civilian stories (the ship was a civilian passage vessel no?), and get rid of those UGLY unitards they wore in the 80s. TNG wasn't perfect perse, but for what it set out to do...I think it did it pretty well. I can only think of very minor stuff to "improve" it. Which is a sign it did most things right.

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Benedict   

ROFL! But we don't know how this is handled in the 24th century... I mean what does this actually mean in practical terms? That people have to go to CRUSHER in order to get their medication? Because I seriously doubt Crusher is capable of determining mental illnesses or anything else in that regard, much less capable of prescribing a proper amount of medication or anything. Remember how she freaked out because of Jono? "HE WAS MISTREATED OMG OMG OMG SOMEONE CALL THE INTERGALACTIC POLICE JEAN-LUUUUUC YOU HAVE TO DOOOO SOMETHIIIING" - while being aware of the POSSIBLITIES in this sad regard is GOOD, OVERREACTING about it and screaming at everyone that the boy has been mistreated while he actually GREW UP AS A TALARIAN is NOT (there we go again, imposing her own human values on alien cultures, just because the boy LOOKS human doesn't mean he IS human, he is a Talarian because he grew up as one and is one of them now, how hard is that to understand)...

Bottom line: Make Guinan the counselor and get Pulaski back. Problems solved. ;)

Quite.

Edited by Mackenzie Calhoun

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Zef'No   
there is a youtube video of like twenty minutes worth of a few second clips with Picard and co. telling Worf "no!" to every idea he brings up.

Sounds like fun; do you have a link?

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Benedict   

there is a youtube video of like twenty minutes worth of a few second clips with Picard and co. telling Worf "no!" to every idea he brings up.

Sounds like fun; do you have a link?

twenty minutes? That's one long put down.

edit

this might be the one

just about made up for the Picard/Crusher videos I trawled past to get there.

Edited by Mackenzie Calhoun

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ROFL! But we don't know how this is handled in the 24th century... I mean what does this actually mean in practical terms? That people have to go to CRUSHER in order to get their medication? Because I seriously doubt Crusher is capable of determining mental illnesses or anything else in that regard, much less capable of prescribing a proper amount of medication or anything. Remember how she freaked out because of Jono? "HE WAS MISTREATED OMG OMG OMG SOMEONE CALL THE INTERGALACTIC POLICE JEAN-LUUUUUC YOU HAVE TO DOOOO SOMETHIIIING" - while being aware of the POSSIBLITIES in this sad regard is GOOD, OVERREACTING about it and screaming at everyone that the boy has been mistreated while he actually GREW UP AS A TALARIAN is NOT (there we go again, imposing her own human values on alien cultures, just because the boy LOOKS human doesn't mean he IS human, he is a Talarian because he grew up as one and is one of them now, how hard is that to understand)...

Bottom line: Make Guinan the counselor and get Pulaski back. Problems solved. ;)

Your last suggestion? Perfect! At least Guinan is licensed to prescribe alcohol..... :P

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Benedict   

ROFL! But we don't know how this is handled in the 24th century... I mean what does this actually mean in practical terms? That people have to go to CRUSHER in order to get their medication? Because I seriously doubt Crusher is capable of determining mental illnesses or anything else in that regard, much less capable of prescribing a proper amount of medication or anything. Remember how she freaked out because of Jono? "HE WAS MISTREATED OMG OMG OMG SOMEONE CALL THE INTERGALACTIC POLICE JEAN-LUUUUUC YOU HAVE TO DOOOO SOMETHIIIING" - while being aware of the POSSIBLITIES in this sad regard is GOOD, OVERREACTING about it and screaming at everyone that the boy has been mistreated while he actually GREW UP AS A TALARIAN is NOT (there we go again, imposing her own human values on alien cultures, just because the boy LOOKS human doesn't mean he IS human, he is a Talarian because he grew up as one and is one of them now, how hard is that to understand)...

Bottom line: Make Guinan the counselor and get Pulaski back. Problems solved. ;)

Your last suggestion? Perfect! At least Guinan is licensed to prescribe alcohol..... :P

I'd say McCoy carried a licence of that sort judging by the intake of Saurian brandy

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ROFL! But we don't know how this is handled in the 24th century... I mean what does this actually mean in practical terms? That people have to go to CRUSHER in order to get their medication? Because I seriously doubt Crusher is capable of determining mental illnesses or anything else in that regard, much less capable of prescribing a proper amount of medication or anything. Remember how she freaked out because of Jono? "HE WAS MISTREATED OMG OMG OMG SOMEONE CALL THE INTERGALACTIC POLICE JEAN-LUUUUUC YOU HAVE TO DOOOO SOMETHIIIING" - while being aware of the POSSIBLITIES in this sad regard is GOOD, OVERREACTING about it and screaming at everyone that the boy has been mistreated while he actually GREW UP AS A TALARIAN is NOT (there we go again, imposing her own human values on alien cultures, just because the boy LOOKS human doesn't mean he IS human, he is a Talarian because he grew up as one and is one of them now, how hard is that to understand)...

Bottom line: Make Guinan the counselor and get Pulaski back. Problems solved. ;)

Your last suggestion? Perfect! At least Guinan is licensed to prescribe alcohol..... :P

I'd say McCoy carried a licence of that sort judging by the intake of Saurian brandy

True, as we saw in "Corbomite Maneuver" "Ultimate Computer" and "Wrath of Khan."

And he didn't even charge for it... ;-D

The ship's doctor may not be a licensed psychiatrist, but Troi isn't a doctor either. If a patient came to her who was severely disturbed and needed medication, would she have to go to Crusher? Seems cumbersome and inefficient always having to bug Crusher to 'reexamine' each of her patients. I'd be easier to have a ship's CMO and a ships' psychiatrist (not psychologist or therapist). A psychiatrist can also dispense counseling as well as medicine; saves you a step...

But frankly, I like Mr. Picard's idea; go to Pulaski (frak Crusher; she's an idiot) for the broken bones, go to Guinan with the broken hearts. When you think about it, we saw Guinan do far more counseling and therapy than Troi did in seven years on the show (and four movies).

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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Benedict   

But frankly, I like Mr. Picard's idea; go to Pulaski (frak Crusher; she's an idiot) for the broken bones, go to Guinan with the broken hearts. When you think about it, we saw Guinan do far more counseling and therapy than Troi did in seven years on the show (and four movies).

some idiot, she's CMO on the Federation flagship. She has her failings and fallabilities as surely as the other CMO's in Trek had. She had her moments though hindered by writing and sometimes acting. Hindered by an idiot kinship to the captain who had his own failings as did Riker etc. Looking back it's a miracle this ship ever left dry-dock but leave it did. Pulaski was little better than Crusher albeit played with someone with experience. 'Frak' Pulaski for surely she had her ineptitude. Beverly Crusher did her bit, she helped Worf out after his accident (albeit with some extra help but then McCoy didn't know Klingon anatomy either), she helped the others when it was needed...she tried her bit with Picard in the Inner Light and Tapestry for example but it'll never be...good enough.

Compared to Bashir...it lacks.

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there is a youtube video of like twenty minutes worth of a few second clips with Picard and co. telling Worf "no!" to every idea he brings up.

Sounds like fun; do you have a link?

twenty minutes? That's one long put down.

edit

this might be the one

just about made up for the Picard/Crusher videos I trawled past to get there.

Yep. That's the one.... haha.

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Benedict   

there is a youtube video of like twenty minutes worth of a few second clips with Picard and co. telling Worf "no!" to every idea he brings up.

Sounds like fun; do you have a link?

twenty minutes? That's one long put down.

edit

this might be the one

just about made up for the Picard/Crusher videos I trawled past to get there.

Yep. That's the one.... haha.

Worf had more luck on DS9, Sisko seemed quite on his side :)

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But frankly, I like Mr. Picard's idea; go to Pulaski (frak Crusher; she's an idiot) for the broken bones, go to Guinan with the broken hearts. When you think about it, we saw Guinan do far more counseling and therapy than Troi did in seven years on the show (and four movies).

some idiot, she's CMO on the Federation flagship. She has her failings and fallabilities as surely as the other CMO's in Trek had. She had her moments though hindered by writing and sometimes acting. Hindered by an idiot kinship to the captain who had his own failings as did Riker etc. Looking back it's a miracle this ship ever left dry-dock but leave it did. Pulaski was little better than Crusher albeit played with someone with experience. 'Frak' Pulaski for surely she had her ineptitude. Beverly Crusher did her bit, she helped Worf out after his accident (albeit with some extra help but then McCoy didn't know Klingon anatomy either), she helped the others when it was needed...she tried her bit with Picard in the Inner Light and Tapestry for example but it'll never be...good enough.

Compared to Bashir...it lacks.

It wasn't the actress really, it was that Crusher was so badly written half the time that she came off looking inept. And as for McCoy not knowing Klingon anatomy? True, but then again, he didn't have a Klingon officer in his senior staff, either. If he did, I'm sure he would've boned up on it (in fact, according to Voyager, McCoy later writes a book on comparative alien physiology at some point; the EMH mentions it). And McCoy also had a Vulcan expert (M'Benga) to assist him with Vulcans (who, as it's been established, have a rather complicated physiology).

Crusher has let patients (both infectious and not) just casually wander out of her sickbay (Naked Now, Home, many others), turned the entire crew into devolving mutants because she accidentally mistreated Barclay for a minor ailment (causing a spontaneous virus to occur) almost KILLED Worf because she 'forgot' that Klingons have a redundant spinal function (or whatever the hell it was), imposes her ethics on alien patients on a regular basis, allowed a 21st century woman (who was in a highly confused state) to wander out of her sickbay and (albeit briefly) put the captains' life in jeopardy, almost violated the prime directive a few times because she failed to properly sedate patients, etc. I know she has her defenders and i respect that, but IMO? She was just incompetent. The fact that she was CMO of the flagship doesn't mean her character was written in that capacity.

Pulaski was more 'blood and guts' in her treatments. I can believe that if she had to physically strap a patient into a bed to keep him/her there? She would have. Hell, she even drank poison in a Klingon tea ceremony with Worf when he came to express his gratitude; honoring Worf's customs even when she didn't agree with them. I could imagine Crusher would've called it 'barbaric' and walked away....

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Hammer   

True, as we saw in "Corbomite Maneuver" "Ultimate Computer" and "Wrath of Khan."

And he didn't even charge for it... ;-D

The ship's doctor may not be a licensed psychiatrist, but Troi isn't a doctor either. If a patient came to her who was severely disturbed and needed medication, would she have to go to Crusher? Seems cumbersome and inefficient always having to bug Crusher to 'reexamine' each of her patients. I'd be easier to have a ship's CMO and a ships' psychiatrist (not psychologist or therapist). A psychiatrist can also dispense counseling as well as medicine; saves you a step...

But frankly, I like Mr. Picard's idea; go to Pulaski (frak Crusher; she's an idiot) for the broken bones, go to Guinan with the broken hearts. When you think about it, we saw Guinan do far more counseling and therapy than Troi did in seven years on the show (and four movies).

Psychiatrists don't really do counseling. Sure they will ask the patient background questions to find risk factors, but they are more focused on how symptoms are currently affecting the patient. They diagnose and then decide whether or not to prescribe medicine. They are more like a medical specialist, like an optometrist. On Next Gen, Crusher would be more like the family doctor. The 'Counselor' title was more to give her something to do in episodes besides reading the antagonist's emotions. Having a Betazoid doctor in sickbay telling this stuff to Picard over the comm would have been awkward. Sure you could eliminate her, but then the only alien on the main cast is Worf, and the only non-humans Worf and Data.

As for Crusher's writing, they obviously knew how to write well for a doctor character, we saw it in season 2, they just chose not to in Crusher's case. Maybe they thought having a mediocre, opinionated doctor worked better for what they wanted. I have no idea why but there it is.

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True, as we saw in "Corbomite Maneuver" "Ultimate Computer" and "Wrath of Khan."

And he didn't even charge for it... ;-D

The ship's doctor may not be a licensed psychiatrist, but Troi isn't a doctor either. If a patient came to her who was severely disturbed and needed medication, would she have to go to Crusher? Seems cumbersome and inefficient always having to bug Crusher to 'reexamine' each of her patients. I'd be easier to have a ship's CMO and a ships' psychiatrist (not psychologist or therapist). A psychiatrist can also dispense counseling as well as medicine; saves you a step...

But frankly, I like Mr. Picard's idea; go to Pulaski (frak Crusher; she's an idiot) for the broken bones, go to Guinan with the broken hearts. When you think about it, we saw Guinan do far more counseling and therapy than Troi did in seven years on the show (and four movies).

Psychiatrists don't really do counseling. Sure they will ask the patient background questions to find risk factors, but they are more focused on how symptoms are currently affecting the patient. They diagnose and then decide whether or not to prescribe medicine. They are more like a medical specialist, like an optometrist. On Next Gen, Crusher would be more like the family doctor. The 'Counselor' title was more to give her something to do in episodes besides reading the antagonist's emotions. Having a Betazoid doctor in sickbay telling this stuff to Picard over the comm would have been awkward. Sure you could eliminate her, but then the only alien on the main cast is Worf, and the only non-humans Worf and Data.

As for Crusher's writing, they obviously knew how to write well for a doctor character, we saw it in season 2, they just chose not to in Crusher's case. Maybe they thought having a mediocre, opinionated doctor worked better for what they wanted. I have no idea why but there it is.

I would also go further and speculate that by the (hypothetical) 24th century, psychiatry/psychology would be more directly linked to medicine, anyway. There would still be the human touch of talking it out with someone (i.e., Guinan) but with the human genome already mapped and more and more genes linked to specific functions and behaviors every day? I would imagine most emotional issues that are somewhat baffling or mysterious today (autism, depression, etc) would be solved with a hypospray in that fictional future. The only thing I could see a counselor doing would be counseling a crew member (or members) during times of loss or some other ship-wide tragedy. But for mental illnesses? I imagine a future CMO of a starship would be more than equipped to deal with what, by then, would be easily diagnosed and treatable mental ailments.

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I really wasn't joking when I said that Guinan should've been the counselor. She's a good listener AND, more importantly, SHE wouldn't intimidate her patients like Troi did - would YOU go to a counselor who can sense your feelings? The LAST thing I'd want would be for her to snoop around in my mind. It's a useful skill for aliens of the week and to sense deception, perhaps, but it's very intimidating to know that the person who is supposed to counsel you knows a lot more about you than you want her to know simply because she can sense your emotions. It's too much, at least it would be for me. I'd ask for someone else and I imagine I would not be the only one, Troi even mentions it once or twice that people are intimidated by her at first because they know she can sense their feelings. True enough, Guinan's real abilities are a mystery as well but if I had to choose between someone who just LISTENS and gives awesome advice and someone who intimidates me because they can sense EXACTLY what I'm feeling, I know which person I'd prefer to turn to.

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Benedict   

As for Crusher's writing, they obviously knew how to write well for a doctor character, we saw it in season 2, they just chose not to in Crusher's case. Maybe they thought having a mediocre, opinionated doctor worked better for what they wanted. I have no idea why but there it is.

Sad but true. Somehow they preferred the doctor that way. Leaving it to others to buff up the image outside of the series.

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As for Crusher's writing, they obviously knew how to write well for a doctor character, we saw it in season 2, they just chose not to in Crusher's case. Maybe they thought having a mediocre, opinionated doctor worked better for what they wanted. I have no idea why but there it is.

Sad but true. Somehow they preferred the doctor that way. Leaving it to others to buff up the image outside of the series.

It's not just a Crusher problem. It's a general female character problem. The TNG writers - for the most part - were straight males with clear "ideas" of how "women think". (Which... is... erm... questionable... yeah, let's leave it at that, lol.) They imposed their own views on women and their behavior on the behavior of the characters on the show. (Which is why Crusher, in one of the show's WORST episodes, gives a speech to a poor transgendered alien in which she explains that all women have long hair and wear make up and that all of them want to look pretty and that men want to be pretty too but don't admit it /insert schoolgirl giggle. It's like kindergarten, seriously, I can't even watch that episode anymore because it's filled with so much nonsense, it's a disgrace, and yet, I mentioned it because it actually reflects the opinions the writers had on women, no wonder the main female characters turned out the way they did.)

Pretty much ALL female characters on TNG are insanely stereotypical - they're either the female geek with glasses, the overprotective mother, the seductive type with little else on their minds, the over-bitchy 'don't you dare do this or that" type... you get the idea. We only notice this sort of thing with Crusher and Troi so much because they're main characters and the writers made them into living stereotype monuments. It's a general TNG problem, though - the show, despite its advanced future setting, is, in many regards, even more sexist than TOS. Look at Uhura. She's more interesting than Crusher and Troi combined, and I for one think it's an utter disgrace that a show that was made in the 60s managed to come up with a more interesting and competent female character than a show that was made some 20 years later. As I said, the TNG writers didn't even NOTICE what they were doing, to THEM, the female characters were perfectly fine, which is why you get the same female character stereotypes in season 1 and in season 7 - there's no change whatsoever.

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The stereotypical female character was a problem that really wasn't rectified fully until DS9, IMO. Put it this way, Counselor Troi and Beverly Crusher wouldn't have lasted 2 hours on that station (especially Troi). And speaking of Troi.... :cylonnono:

And yet another insightful observation from Mr. Picard; I would HATE to see a therapist who could probe my feelings and emotions without my consent! That's a violation not only of privacy, but it's sort of a mental rape of sorts (only a degree or two less so than the rapist telepath in "Violations" or Shinzon in "Nemesis"). Guinan got into people's heads the old-fashioned way; my observing what they put out there. Body language, conversation. A give and take. But to walk into a therapist's office and having her know right away that I'm having a brief sexual fantasy, or a fleeting thought of beating up someone who angered me that morning? That's a bit disturbing. I believe the human lack of telepathy was a smart move, evolution-wise. We all think things and sometimes feel things we would NEVER want anyone to 'walk in' on, so to speak. But with Troi? It's automatic. That would not only make me feel GREATLY humiliated, but somewhat violated as well.

I think Troi's Betazoid power was something that was really not well planned out. It would be like giving Riker the ability to smell fear in people, or giving Data the ability to hear across a vacuum. Intriguing ideas, but ultimately useless in execution. Having Troi second people's emotions was not only redundant (the actors' convey the emotions to the audience anyway), but most often it's 'cheating' (a fact that Admiral Satie pointed out to Picard in "Drumhead"). It gives the senior staff an illicit peek into other's minds. Having the immediate upper hand is not exactly a reciprocal way to begin a 'trusting' relationship with strange new worlds and new civilizations. If I were an alien leader, and I were confronted by representatives of the Federation who approached me with a mind reader in their group? I'd feel instantly on edge and a bit defensive.....

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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The stereotypical female character was a problem that really wasn't rectified fully until DS9, IMO. Put it this way, Counselor Troi and Beverly Crusher wouldn't have lasted 2 hours on that station (especially Troi). And speaking of Troi.... :cylonnono:

And yet another insightful observation from Mr. Picard; I would HATE to see a therapist who could probe my feelings and emotions without my consent! That's a violation not only of privacy, but it's sort of a mental rape of sorts (only a degree or two less so than the rapist telepath in "Violations" or Shinzon in "Nemesis"). Guinan got into people's heads the old-fashioned way; my observing what they put out there. Body language, conversation. A give and take. But to walk into a therapist's office and having her know right away that I'm having a brief sexual fantasy, or a fleeting thought of beating up someone who angered me that morning? That's a bit disturbing. I believe the human lack of telepathy was a smart move, evolution-wise. We all think things and sometimes feel things we would NEVER want anyone to 'walk in' on, so to speak. But with Troi? It's automatic. That would not only make me feel GREATLY humiliated, but somewhat violated as well.

I think Troi's Betazoid power was something that was really not well planned out. It would be like giving Riker the ability to smell fear in people, or giving Data the ability to hear across a vacuum. Intriguing ideas, but ultimately useless in execution. Having Troi second people's emotions was not only redundant (the actors' convey the emotions to the audience anyway), but most often it's 'cheating' (a fact that Admiral Satie pointed out to Picard in "Drumhead"). It gives the senior staff an illicit peek into other's minds. Having the immediate upper hand is not exactly a reciprocal way to begin a 'trusting' relationship with strange new worlds and new civilizations. If I were an alien leader, and I were confronted by representatives of the Federation who approached me with a mind reader in their group? I'd feel instantly on edge and a bit defensive.....

Agreed. I'm not a Niner by all means, quite the contrary, but both Kira and Dax were fine in my book (especially early Kira, I love early Kira). DS9 did have its share of awful female character guest stars, though - but they at least did the main female characters better this time.

Indeed. Troi can't help her empathic skills, it's not her fault, but whoever chose to make her a COUNSELOR for humans was indeed not thinking this through properly. I mean it's like making a bloodthirsty, angry Klingon the Chief Medical Officer - just something that doesn't go well together. An empathic counselor? No, thanks! I don't care if this is anti-Betazoid or whatever, but since I am not an exactly very mentally stable person I think I am qualified to say that I would NOT want to be "treated" by Troi. It's so intimidating and I would immediately be QUITE defensive and even hostile, as you rightly pointed out.

With aliens... Jean-Luc DOES tell her in "The Loss" that he is fortunate to have her but that he would basically do just as well without her. He is and he would (she only points out the obvious anyway, lol), but you are right, if I were an alien and these Federation guys would approach me with an empath among them, I'd be very... suspicious indeed.

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