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Fish1941

How Would You Improve Next Generation?

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A rebooted TNG might cause me to spit my pipe out. Unless Crusher was played by Amy Adams

Amy Adams would SO rock the Star Trek universe (although I agree that TNG shouldn't, and probably never will, be rebooted). When I heard she was Lois Lane in the new Superman movie, I just about wept tears of joy (Kate Bosworth absolutely torpedoed the part; she was dour and humorless and had NONE of the joie de vivre that Margot Kidder did in the 1978 movie).

I've been an Amy Adams fan since my wife and I first saw "Enchanted"; that was the "Galaxy Quest" of Disney movies... :thumbup:

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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A rebooted TNG might cause me to spit my pipe out. Unless Crusher was played by Amy Adams

Amy Adams would SO rock the Star Trek universe (although I agree that TNG shouldn't, and probably never will, be rebooted). When I heard she was Lois Lane in the new Superman movie, I just about wept tears of joy (Kate Bosworth absolutely torpedoed the part; she was dour and humorless and had NONE of the joie de vivre that Margot Kidder did in the 1978 movie).

I've been an Amy Adams fan since my wife and I first saw "Enchanted"; that was the "Galaxy Quest" of Disney movies... :thumbup:

I think it was Talladega Nights of all things that started Amy Adamsicination

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A rebooted TNG might cause me to spit my pipe out. Unless Crusher was played by Amy Adams

Amy Adams would SO rock the Star Trek universe (although I agree that TNG shouldn't, and probably never will, be rebooted). When I heard she was Lois Lane in the new Superman movie, I just about wept tears of joy (Kate Bosworth absolutely torpedoed the part; she was dour and humorless and had NONE of the joie de vivre that Margot Kidder did in the 1978 movie).

I've been an Amy Adams fan since my wife and I first saw "Enchanted"; that was the "Galaxy Quest" of Disney movies... :thumbup:

I think it was Talladega Nights of all things that started Amy Adamsicination

She was also in a small, but memorable role as a candy-striper in "Catch Me If You Can" (2002)

Frankly, the role of Crusher would be an incredible waste of her talent; it'd be like having the Coen brothers write an "out of order" sign for a restroom....

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A rebooted TNG might cause me to spit my pipe out. Unless Crusher was played by Amy Adams

Amy Adams would SO rock the Star Trek universe (although I agree that TNG shouldn't, and probably never will, be rebooted). When I heard she was Lois Lane in the new Superman movie, I just about wept tears of joy (Kate Bosworth absolutely torpedoed the part; she was dour and humorless and had NONE of the joie de vivre that Margot Kidder did in the 1978 movie).

I've been an Amy Adams fan since my wife and I first saw "Enchanted"; that was the "Galaxy Quest" of Disney movies... :thumbup:

I think it was Talladega Nights of all things that started Amy Adamsicination

She was also in a small, but memorable role as a candy-striper in "Catch Me If You Can" (2002)

Frankly, the role of Crusher would be an incredible waste of her talent; it'd be like having the Coen brothers write an "out of order" sign for a restroom....

a 'new' Crusher could be totally different. Considering how the TOS reboot has gone. Of course it could be so shabbily treated that Crusher is entirely absent from a new TNG and the doctor is either a hot young blonde (Diora Baird) or a robot.

Still wish I could meet Gates McFadden, I missed the chance twice this past year and I have some questions for her. I'm willing to bet I'd get a question off rather than a photo.

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A rebooted TNG might cause me to spit my pipe out. Unless Crusher was played by Amy Adams

Amy Adams would SO rock the Star Trek universe (although I agree that TNG shouldn't, and probably never will, be rebooted). When I heard she was Lois Lane in the new Superman movie, I just about wept tears of joy (Kate Bosworth absolutely torpedoed the part; she was dour and humorless and had NONE of the joie de vivre that Margot Kidder did in the 1978 movie).

I've been an Amy Adams fan since my wife and I first saw "Enchanted"; that was the "Galaxy Quest" of Disney movies... :thumbup:

I think it was Talladega Nights of all things that started Amy Adamsicination

She was also in a small, but memorable role as a candy-striper in "Catch Me If You Can" (2002)

Frankly, the role of Crusher would be an incredible waste of her talent; it'd be like having the Coen brothers write an "out of order" sign for a restroom....

a 'new' Crusher could be totally different. Considering how the TOS reboot has gone. Of course it could be so shabbily treated that Crusher is entirely absent from a new TNG and the doctor is either a hot young blonde (Diora Baird) or a robot.

I imagine a LONG line of guys waiting to play doctor with Diora Baird.... ;-)

diora-baird.jpg

As I recall, she also had a cameo in ST09 (in a deleted scene only, sadly) as the 'other' Orion starfleet officer Kirk mistakes for his academy paramour...

diora.jpg

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^

It was a VERY bad ending for my favorite Trek series indeed. But then, I'm pretty good at ignoring episodes and movies I despise, so, to me, TNG ended with First Contact. It is less aggravating that way. Still, you're right, of course, it really was a very bad ending for something that is loved so much by so many Trek fans. I hope they'll never touch TNG again with ANYTHING canon because... no. I don't want them to make an even bigger mess of it, and I fear they would do EXACTLY that these days. TNG had its time and I think it would be best if they just left it alone.

You are wise, my friend.... :worthy:

I am married to one of the wisest men in the entire Federation... it rubs off or something, I guess. lol

As for Crusher being treated differently in a reboot... considering how Uhura was apparently treated in Trek XI, my hopes aren't very high... my guess is that things would be even worse. If that's possible.

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If a reboot were made today, who would they cast? Just for lolz, I'll try to list a few:

Picard - Daniel Craig

Riker - Nicholas Hoult

La Forge - Omar Epps

Worf - Quinton Jackson

Troi - Selena Gomez

Troi's mother - Sofia Vergara

Data - Jim Parsons

Dr Crusher - Amy Adams

Wesley Crusher - Sterling Beaumon

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As for Crusher being treated differently in a reboot... considering how Uhura was apparently treated in Trek XI, my hopes aren't very high... my guess is that things would be even worse. If that's possible.

there are always...possibilities.

You have to wonder sometimes.

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Even though I'm loathed to even think of a TNG reboot (there'd be NO market for it whatsoever; it'd be a flop of colossal proportions), I enjoy the 'recasting game' that Hammer started with TNG, so I'll play along... :thumbup:

Picard - Daniel Craig (he's almost the age now that Stewart was when he first took the role, too). Hope he doesn't mind shaving his head...

Riker - Brandon Routh (because he never got a fair shake as Superman, IMO; and I thought he was brilliant)

Data - Tom Middleton (when I first saw "Thor"/"Avengers" I was struck by how much he reminded me of a young Brent Spiner... it was uncanny)

Worf - Michael Jai White (he played Mike Tyson, Black Dynamite and Spawn; he'd be perfect)

Crusher - Bryce Dallas Howard ("The Village" "The Help"; much better actress than Gates McFadden, too).

LaForge - LaRenz Tate ("Crash" "Ray" "Menace II Society") Reminds me of a younger LeVar Burton for some reason.

Troi - Marion Cotillard ("La Vie En Rose", "Inception"; dark, enigmatic beauty and damn good actress. Being an Oscar winner, she'd NEVER sign on though...)

Wesley - Let's not and say we did, OK? :laugh:

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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Bruce Greenwood. In every role.

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Bruce Greenwood. In every role.

Bet he'd do a better Troi, too... :laugh:

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Bruce Greenwood. In every role.

Bet he'd do a better Troi, too... :laugh:

He's about the only thing I'm looking forward to in Star Trek XII

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Bruce Greenwood. In every role.

Bet he'd do a better Troi, too... :laugh:

He's about the only thing I'm looking forward to in Star Trek XII

I rather enjoyed ST09.

I realize that many thought it was blasphemous to 'rewrite' the history of TOS, but as a lifelong TOS fan I thought it did a great service to the characters (even Uhura and Sulu had great moments that they never had in TOS.... even if they're played by different actors now). And I enjoyed it very much; IMO, the ST franchise desperately needed a fresh infusion of youth and energy. And it's easier if you think of it as a parallel universe splintered off from the prime universe, rather than a rewriting of the prime universe. So ultimately I view it as a fun, 'what-if' version of the franchise. It didn't 'erase' or undo TOS for me, any more than BBC's new (awesome) Sherlock series didn't erase my Sherlock Holmes collection on my book shelf (or my Jeremy Brett DVDs). Or as "Skyfall" didn't undo "From Russia With Love"....

But a TNG reboot would really be pushing it, IMO. :vulcan:

As interesting and popular as TNG once was (and still is, to some extent) it never really achieved the meta-pop culture level of TOS. TOS is recognized by people in pretty much every country. I know people who've never watched ST at all who've still heard of 'that guy with the pointy ears'; those same people would have no idea who or what "Data" is, or why Geordi wears a car air filter over his eyes....

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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The TNG characters weren't as recognizable by non-fans as TOS characters were, but I'd argue that Picard approaches that level of instant recognition. Kirk, Spock, Bones, Scotty were the ones that could be recalled by non-fans, Uhura, Sulu Chekov probably not so much. TNG, I think the order would be Picard (big gap to the next tier of characters) Data (got a lot of screen time, easy to remember even if you were vaguely aware of the show), Wesley (if only because of The Big Bang Theory). Worf, Laforge, Riker, Troi don't really get as much pop culture recognition, but are recognized by some. Tasha Yar and Dr Crusher weren't even popular among fans, let alone recognized among non-fans.

As for ST09, I could see it's appeal as an action movie and non-fans wouldn't be as critical of it. The casting was good, especially McCoy. The back stories on Kirk and Spock were interesting to see. As a Trek fan though I thought the plot had obvious holes and while there were nods to canon, it didn't always adhere to it. Oh our entire fleet is in some other system, better send up the recruits. Oh, I made Spock mad, I guess I go from prisoner in exile to captain. Engineering looked like a oil refinery or a brewery, not an engine room. The villain was almost an after thought, and his motives for revenge against Vulcan were pretty weak. Oh well, if this kind of movie is what it takes to keep the franchise alive, so be it.

A next gen reboot would probably work better as a TV series than a movie, unless they want to make changes to the characters themselves. (Turn Picard into an English sounding Frenchman version of Kirk) Using diplomacy to get out of fights works alright on a one hour TV show catering to fans, because it's true to character and how we imagine starfleet would operate. But in a movie? That would be pretty boring.

Another problem: with a large cast like TNG, it's hard to give everyone something interesting to do and cram it into a 90 minute movie. Does a dream team of these top young actors and pop culture stars want to do a movie with maybe a couple pages of lines at most? As much as I'd like to see someone like Selena Gomez lure in that coveted demographic, (Sirtis always hammed it up anyway, you don't need to be a good actress, you just have to look the part) you would probably only have 1 or 2 characters filled by instantly recognizable stars, and the rest they would have to do their talent scouting and fill the roles with strong character actors. Even if you did that, what's the difference between ST09 really? If you are only paying lip service to canon, who cares if it's 23rd or 24th century? Any story you can do on Next Gen you can do on the TOS reboot.

If they want to revive it in a way, do an Enterprise-F TV series, set it at the beginning of the 25th Century, give cameos to the recognized actors (Admiral Picard anyone?), and put together a whole new crew. Everything in 'prime' timeline is canon, ST09 is ignored or use some excuse to repair the timeline after the fact and include them.

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I think after the current cycle of ST movies are done, and we're left with a nice neat trilogy?

I'd put ST to bed for awhile (again). Until another really good idea strikes.

The new ST09 cast are all getting very successful careers. Urban, Quinto, Yelchin, Pine and Saldana are all going places. And John Cho can always make another Harold and Kumar movie (as I love those films, I would welcome it!). I think after the 2nd movie, they'll probably squeak out one more (and I wouldn't be too surprised if a major cast member gets killed off because one of the actors needs to do another movie...).

But as popular as TNG is in ST circles? I just don't see it getting the global recognition of TOS. TOS had a 20 year head start. And it had a more 'pared down' cast; not the unwieldy ensemble of TNG (which would be a LOT harder to accommodate in a reboot). I don't see (as a Ferengi would say) any profit in it. TNG is just not bankable enough these days; the box office for Nemesis and Insurrection kind of bear this out, too. The audience just wasn't there.

As for Selena Gomez as Troi... um, isn't she a bit young? She's a kid, isn't she? Or am I thinking of another actress? I'm not up on current pop stars or actors quite as much, so maybe I'm mistaken. But even if I were rebooting ST-TNG, I'm not sure I'd add Troi back to the crew roster anyway (just as the 2009 movie didn't have Yeoman Rand or Nurse Chapel; on camera, at least).

But anyway, if they were to create a new ST movie series or TV show after the current cycle of movies is over? I would think it should be something entirely different than what we've seen before on ST. It shouldn't just be about a new ship and new people in new uniforms; otherwise it'll too easily decay into something like Voyager. It has to be an idea that makes it all fresh again; like the reboot did.

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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Insurrection and Nemesis were over a decade removed from Farpoint. The actors were getting older, none were in the target demo for an action movie. Yes, the cast was large, so they were stuck either giving everyone something to do, or make it a Picard-Data show and push everyone else into the background. They chose the latter, and turned off the fans, and casuals weren't interested in a show that was showing it's age. The bad scripts were just icing on the cake.

In a reboot, you could probably pare it down by eliminating Riker, Wesley and the Dr. Riker was redundant if Picard is the action star. Wesley can be replaced by 'unnamed crewman'. Having the doctor means giving the doctor something to do every movie. Klingons are popular, so keep Worf. All Trek movies need an engineer, keep Laforge.

Selena Gomez is 20. I think she would end up in the Star Wars VII Disney reboot before she would touch this role though. I was thinking the role should go to a younger actress that could bring in young adult women. Sirtis in Farpoint was 32, but I think you could cast her role younger. I wouldn't eliminate the Troi role or else you'd really have no prominent women on the cast, unless you kept the Dr instead. Troi's character was more interesting, and gives the opportunity to a less experienced actress to ham it up and overact.

I think Voyager had other problems than being some kind of Next Gen clone, which I don't think it was. The casting decisions were weak, from the lead on down. Picardo and Ryan were the only actors that did well in their roles. Mulgrew is more at home with comedy than drama. The main premise, that this was a ship trapped far from home, turned it into Star Trek's version of Gilligan's Island. You knew that whatever idea they would have come up with to get home quickly would fail, it was just a matter of how it would fail. Communication's isolation from SFC turned them into a time capsule, any developments on DS9 were isolated from them. For a while, the Marquis only continued to exist on Voyager. Also, being that there was no backup plan, nothing permanently disabling could happen to Voyager. Voyager was a smaller ship, but it had to somehow withstand the borg etc. The fans had to suspend disbelief, and a big reset button had to be hit after every episode. It's the premise for the show which sunk it before it left the gate. If the show was realistic, they would not have made it home at all. It's amazing that this show made it 7 seasons, and much of that had to do with Jeri Ryan bailing the show out, for which she gets a lot of dislike from some fans for screen hogging. I don't think any of this happens in a new Enterprise series.

Another idea for a series would be to jump to the era of time-ships and allow travel between galaxies, because that would be something different . Outside of the Beta-Delta quadrant border area, most of the galaxy has been charted out and the major races have been discovered. The problem is that time travel rules were always a contradictory mess in Star Trek, and a paradox caused the audiences headaches to figure out.

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As much as it pains me to say this (as I loathe Crusher), but if one were to reboot TNG (again; a very bad idea IMO, but I digress), you'd need the doctor but you would not need the counselor. Counselor Troi is redundant on the ship; all she ever really did was overact and point out the obvious. Nothing against Sirtis, but she rarely had a good episode. My personal favorite of hers was "Face Of The Enemy", because Troi was being used (for once) in a very non-Troi way; a political thriller. It wasn't Troi sitting on the bridge in an evening gown telling Picard, "he's hiding something" or "you shouldn't trust him... he's after our technology" or whatever. FOTE was a nice change for the character. Sadly, other Troi centric episodes usually involved her falling in love ("Masterpiece Society" "The Price") or going psycho because of an alien force ("The Loss" "Eye of the Beholder") or both ("Man of the People"), etc. etc. In other words; she's useless (whether played by Sirtis or a Disney pop princess) and could be easily replaced. But the ship's doctor is a VITAL component to a crew. A ship's counselor however, is debatable; it was an idea born of the 12-step program '80s, really. Seems kind of anachronistic today....

PS: And I largely agree about VGR. People can say what they will about Jeri Ryan (I've heard people call her "Barbie of Borg") but personally, I thought her character and the more Borg centric stories pulled that meandering turd of a show out of harm's way and onto seven seasons. Kes was going nowhere. Seven and the Doctor were the only characters who registered. Although, in the cast's defense, Garrett Wang has said (in a telling podcast interview) that the muting of the human characters personalities was a direct order from producer Berman to make the 'aliens' stand out more. But for me the biggest problem of Voyager was largely a format one; it should've been the Battlestar Galactica of the ST franchise (a desperate crew in a long struggle for survival in hostile space), but instead they settled on "Gilligan's Island" ('stranded' survivors who always seem to have plenty of food, clothing, makeup, etc). But for me, Seven and the Doctor were pretty much the only things I remember well about the show.

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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I don't think a TNG reboot is very likely, at least not right now... TNG was popular, yes, but NEVER as iconic as TOS was. That's why they chose TOS in the first place - to feed off its popularity to lure in fans, curious nerds who ALL knew Captain Kirk but had never really bothered with TOS and the fangirls who like young actors.

I'm also not sure if they would actually keep Troi. She really served no purpose other than stating the obvious and looking pretty in her dresses, and when they finally began to turn her into a slightly more interesting character (when she was given her uniform), it was too late. They might decide to combine the roles of doctor and counselor in one single character. But then, I hope they won't have to because there will be no reboot in the first place. I mean really, this whole reboot fetish that Hollywood appears to have at the moment HAS to come to an end at SOME point...?

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I don't think a TNG reboot is very likely, at least not right now... TNG was popular, yes, but NEVER as iconic as TOS was. That's why they chose TOS in the first place - to feed off its popularity to lure in fans, curious nerds who ALL knew Captain Kirk but had never really bothered with TOS and the fangirls who like young actors.

I'm also not sure if they would actually keep Troi. She really served no purpose other than stating the obvious and looking pretty in her dresses, and when they finally began to turn her into a slightly more interesting character (when she was given her uniform), it was too late. They might decide to combine the roles of doctor and counselor in one single character. But then, I hope they won't have to because there will be no reboot in the first place. I mean really, this whole reboot fetish that Hollywood appears to have at the moment HAS to come to an end at SOME point...?

Agreed.

On all your points.

And the 'doctor/psychiatrist' combination was attempted as far back as the TOS pilot (when Dr. Boyce plays 'bartender' to Capt. Pike).

ST was rebooted once (at great expense and controversy), but I doubt it'll be attempted again with the TNG crew. Kirk and Spock are far more iconic than say, Picard and Data (I know as ST fans we may not think so, but many non-ST fans would probably agree that is the case). Again, they had a 20 year head start (it's not the fault of any TNG actor). And after NEM and INS, there's obviously not enough market for a TNG reboot (after all, movies ARE a business).

Personally, I would've loved to have seen DS9 get the big screen treatment someday, but then again I would also liked to have had an inexhaustible trunk full of money, a private space shuttle to fly me to my summer home on Mars, and Jennifer Connelly as an ex-girlfriend from my bachelor days. None of which are gonna happen.... ;)

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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I'm also not sure if they would actually keep Troi. She really served no purpose other than stating the obvious and looking pretty in her dresses, and when they finally began to turn her into a slightly more interesting character (when she was given her uniform), it was too late. They might decide to combine the roles of doctor and counselor in one single character. But then, I hope they won't have to because there will be no reboot in the first place. I mean really, this whole reboot fetish that Hollywood appears to have at the moment HAS to come to an end at SOME point...?

that's one thing I can agree on. Logically the role of doctor/counsellor could be combined. Make her a flaming redhead and I'll be over in a flash.

But a TNG reboot won't happen. No point of it. As for reboots ending...only when Hollywood gets sucked into a singularity and spat out in the Andromeda Galaxy.

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I sure hope a TNG reboot won't happen... the mere thought of it makes me irrationally angry. I also agree that there is no market for it. Look at ST.com and the merchandise they offer. There is the occasional TNG stuff but most of it is TOS or reboot. THAT is where the money lies and THAT is where they will remain.

Oh and I love Dr. Boyce. Just as I love Captain Pike. (I am one of the few who prefer Pike over Kirk.)

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I sure hope a TNG reboot won't happen... the mere thought of it makes me irrationally angry. I also agree that there is no market for it. Look at ST.com and the merchandise they offer. There is the occasional TNG stuff but most of it is TOS or reboot. THAT is where the money lies and THAT is where they will remain.

Oh and I love Dr. Boyce. Just as I love Captain Pike. (I am one of the few who prefer Pike over Kirk.)

I think Pike would've made it a very different kind of series (not saying better or worse, just different).

I'd love to imagine a parallel Star Trek out there following the adventures of Pike, Number One, Boyce and that funny shouting alien guy named Spock.... ;)

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Helps Boyce was played by John Hoyt, I'll chiefly remember him for When Worlds Collide. Fine actor and in a series, who knows.

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Helps Boyce was played by John Hoyt, I'll chiefly remember him for When Worlds Collide. Fine actor and in a series, who knows.

Also very memorable in Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits and just about every other TV show I grew up with. It'd be interesting if he were head of Starfleet Medical in the next movie (I could imagine Mad Men's John Slattery in the role)...

Roger-sterling.jpgjohn_hoyt.jpg

But back on topic?

Next Gen: No reboot necessary. Remember, it WAS the reboot of the ST franchise back in 1987; it was ST's big return to the small screen. A reboot of a reboot could only be a bad thing, IMO. Unless it's the Hulk in feature films; took them several tries to get that one right (I thought The Avengers' Mark Ruffalo was brilliant....).

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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Yeah but TNG was a continuation, not a reboot of TOS (despite its VERY TOS-ish first season, lol). But essentially you're right, of course - why bother with rebooting the sequel series when your reboot of the original one is going somewhat well and brings in money, more money than a TNG reboot ever would...

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