13 replies to this topic

[Dillkid]

I was just thinking about the Cardassians, and was wondering if they were a major force at all in the 23rd Century? I know they are never mentioned in TOS, but is it ever said anywhere if they just developed their power sometime inbetween TOS and TNG?

[Virogen]

I don't recall it being mentioned, but the occupation of Bajor was not that long after TOS... So they must have been expanding for a while since Bajor is not that close to Cardassia.

[starblue82]

I always assumed that they were there and perhaps the Federation knew about them but the Enterprise or the Federation had no need to have dealings with them at that time - but Star Trek always has these little continuation problems when introducing a new species which becomes a major race within the franchise

[Virogen]

i'm sure someone will phaser me for mentioning this...

But in Star Trek XI, the Uhura ordered a drink with the name Cardassian in it

[Cheile]

^ i wondered about that being included in Trek XI. tho to me, it just says Abrams again didn't pay attention. :eyeroll: unless in that parallel timeline, they interacted w the Cardassians much earlier than they did in true canon.

btw the Cardassians didn't annex and occupy Bajor til 2328. so awhile after TOS timeframe.

[Dillkid]

Could it be possible that Starfleet hadn't explored the area of the Alpha Quadrant that the Cardassians are native to at that time? Perhaps that's why the Federation/Starfleet war started a few years before TNG. Maybe a Federation starship was destroyed by an unknown at the time ship that turned out to be Cardassians.

[Virogen]

2328? Is that a canon date?

[Tone720]

Dillkid, on 20 March 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

Could it be possible that Starfleet hadn't explored the area of the Alpha Quadrant that the Cardassians are native to at that time? Perhaps that's why the Federation/Starfleet war started a few years before TNG. Maybe a Federation starship was destroyed by an unknown at the time ship that turned out to be Cardassians.

To me it's not just possible, but extremely likely. I mean outside of Enterprise, even the Ferengi were almost unknown when we first saw them in TNG.

[Dillkid]

Tone720, on 20 March 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Dillkid, on 20 March 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

Could it be possible that Starfleet hadn't explored the area of the Alpha Quadrant that the Cardassians are native to at that time? Perhaps that's why the Federation/Starfleet war started a few years before TNG. Maybe a Federation starship was destroyed by an unknown at the time ship that turned out to be Cardassians.

To me it's not just possible, but extremely likely. I mean outside of Enterprise, even the Ferengi were almost unknown when we first saw them in TNG.

The warp speed levels were superier by TNG weren't they? For a random/unaccurate example, wouldn't warp 9 on Kirk's ship be warp 5 or something on Picard's? Maybe it would have taken too long back then.

Edited by Dillkid, 20 March 2012 - 10:45 AM.

[Cheile]

Virogen, on 20 March 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

2328? Is that a canon date?

i pulled it off Memory Alpha:
Prior to the Occupation, the Bajorans were a peaceful people whose art and architecture were well-known and admired throughout the galaxy. The Cardassians, by contrast, were a militaristic and often hostile people who had conquered numerous planets in the name of survival. The two peoples nonetheless managed to coexist peacefully for some time; however, the Cardassians coveted Bajor's rich natural resources and saw the Bajoran people as inferior. Cardassia became increasingly hostile as time went on, maintaining a military presence on the planet for ten years before forcibly annexing it in 2328.

so technically they were around ten years prior, but they didn't commit their takeover til 2328.

[Tone720]

Oh yes, just seen the point about the XI Cardassian Sunrise... I think that was what shall be known as an Abrams Error.. and a rather schoolboy one at that. I think he was SO desperate to chuck in little homages that he threw in a whole bunch and most of them worked, but that one, Nokia 23rd Century and Bud Classic... kinda didn't. (For me, anyways)

[The Frakker]

The Cardassians have been around as early as the 22nd century but they were never a major force until the 24th century when the military took over the government and rose to power, conquered worlds like Bajor and declared war against the Federation. So it's not hard to believe they would have been known to the Federation in the 23rd century. They were mentioned in DS9 to be a peaceful race before the military took over and built up to the power house they became by the TNG era.

[Starblind]

I wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't been discovered in Kirk's time. I'll leave aside Cardassia's transition from a peaceful to a militarised society as we don't know just when that started.

The Federation, although peaeful by nature had plenty of resources tied up closer to home during Kirk's time, namely the ongoing trouble with the Klingons and Romulans, meaning most of Starfleet were concentrated on the Neutral Zones in case another war/confrontation broke out. I know there were some ships out exploring other parts of the galaxy, but space is so vast it's not hard to miss an emerging empire if it's still small enough at the time a scout ship went anywhere near them. The Ferengi spring to mind as an example, as does the Borg (we knew nothing of them until Q stepped in, and they have a huge sphere of influence). Talarians too. The Federation spend a period at war with them shortly before TNG started.

After the Klingons started changing their ways after Praxis and the Romulans went into isolation after the Tomed incident, a large chunk of Starfleet was freed up to go off exploring once again. I'd be unsurprised if it was then they ran into the Cardassians, who by now were expanding rapidly and conquering anything they could get their hands on. (Bajor for example among others) Sooner or later that strategy's going to bump into someone significant, and they're not going to put up with having their worlds raided/attacked.

[The Founder]

This is a really interesting topic. I'm sure the Cardassians were "around" in the TOS-era. Obviously, no mention could be made cause they hadn't been invented. If you are asking "what were they doing during that era?"? I'm not sure to be honest. Space is huge. As others pointed out, during the TOS-era, Starfleet was more focused on the Romulan/Klingon side of space and maybe they did know of the Cardassians, but had no real interest or time to rush to meet them. Not sure.

As for the Cardassian Sunrise being a mistake in the new movie... Really? How so? Is it so hard to believe their beverages were being distributed all over the Alpha Quadrant? Maybe an Yridian merchant sold it to some bartenders on Earth? I mean, this really isn't much of a plot gap on Abrams part. But then again maybe I'm giving him too much credit...:/

Not that anyone is saying this, but I remember this idea being a heavy criticism against ENT. Where were the Suliban during TNG-era!? Um....elsewhere? Space is massive. Is it really that hard to believe that the ENT-D never went to Denobula for a mission? Sorry! I'm not saying anyone in this topic is saying that or making that complaint. This topic just reminded me of that. haha.