Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Mike Thompson said:

Battled through Harve and his Starfleet academy plus the budget continually cut

I still think Harve Bennett’s Starfleet Academy idea had legs; would’ve preferred to have seen it go into production instead of STV, to be honest.   At any rate, we got a taste of Bennett's Starfleet Academy movie with ST09 and it really worked well.  I read the synopsis of ST Academy at Ain’tItCoolNews a long time ago and it sounded like a lot of fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Corylea   

I've only seen the six movies that feature the TOS cast, since I'm still working my way through non-TOS Star Trek (and now there's Discovery, which is bumped to the top of my "must-watch" list).

To me, the movies feel very different than TV-era TOS; the characters feel like different people, and I don't watch the movies very often.  Why would I watch the movies when I could watch "Journey to Babel" or "Amok Time" or "The Devil in the Dark" or "Mirror, Mirror"? :P

So I have a different relationship to the movies than I think most Star Trek fans do, to the extent that most of the time, I pretend that the movies never happened.  In fact, I think so poorly of the first movie that I wrote a story called "Spock vs. Roddenberry," in which Spock neck-pinches Gene Roddenberry and writes a new script for TMP. :laugh:  (It's only around 2000 words, if you want to check it out.)

So, the movies that I've seen:

1.  Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home -- While I usually prefer serious Star Trek to funny Star Trek, this is the movie in which the characters feel the most in character to me, maybe because it's the one dear Mr. Nimoy directed after the studio realized that he understood Star Trek and gave him his head.  I love it that there's no villain in this movie (unless you consider human greed and short-sightedness to be the villain); I think requiring a bad guy for every single movie is a mistake, and I'm thrilled that Mr. Nimoy showed that one can make great Trek without one.

2.  Star Trek III:  The Search for Spock -- Spock is barely in the movie, which is a drawback for me, but I like the "caper" feel to the movie, I like it that every member of the cast gets something to do (Mr. Nimoy's Mission: Impossible days stood him in good stead there), and I love the fact that Spock remembers Kirk's name before he even remembers his own.  How heart-warming can you get? :)  This is the one I watched the day Leonard Nimoy died.

3.  Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan -- I realize that this is at the top of most fans' list, but I have trouble really enjoying a movie where Spock dies, even if he goes out as a noble hero.  I haven't been able to watch this one since Mr. Nimoy died.  I also think that Khan's quest for revenge make no sense and that Ricardo Montalban's performance is overwrought.  (Yes, I know this would be considered sacrilege by many fans.  Sue me. :P)

4.  Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country -- Judged just as a MOVIE, I think this is the best of the lot.  Judged as STAR TREK, this feels like it's slandering all of the characters.  Everyone but Spock acts horribly prejudiced here, and while the movie does teach us some lessons through it, in "Day of the Dove," the characters had to be mind-controlled by an alien entity to be so prejudiced, whereas in this movie, they do it all by themselves.  I feel as if someone's thrown mud on my heroes.  Yes, it's more realistic than some other Star Trek.  Yes, real people do have prejudices.  But part of why I like TOS is because those heroes give us something to aspire to.  I'm an atheist, so I don't have saints I can use as "too good to actually achieve, but it gives us something to strive for" role models.  I don't actually want the TOS cast to be too realistic.  (It's okay with me if the Discovery characters are realistic, because I'm not eleven anymore.  But the TOS characters are sacrosanct to me.)  At least Spock was still good...

5.  Star Trek: The Motion Picture -- This movie makes me crazy.  Starfleet promoted its best captain to admiral before he was even 40?  While it's true that they desperately need some admirals who aren't stupid or insane or something, they can have a whole lotta Kirk time after he turns 50 and is too old to keep fist-fighting alien invaders or whatever.  Plus, while Spock never seemed entirely at ease about the whole human-Vulcan hybrid thing, the guy I saw in "Turnabout Intruder" was WAY too attached to his human friends -- especially Kirk -- to go off and pretend they don't exist anymore.  So I don't buy the premise of this movie from the outset, and everyone but McCoy feels out of character.  Add in the fact that it's a retread of "The Changeling" -- which I've already seen several times, thanks -- and this movie feels like a very expensive mistake.  Nice starship porn, though. :P

6.  Star Trek V: The Final Frontier -- This movie was both stupid and mean-spirited.  It makes fun of the characters and has everyone betraying Kirk, when we know from "Space Seed" that Kirk's crew would rather be put to death than betray him.  Plus, the idea that a Vulcan would believe that God exists in a specific place that one can get to with a space ship ... you're kidding, right? :rolleyes:  I do like the idea that we need our pain, and I do like, "What does God need with a starship," but those two things aren't enough to justify a movie.  As far as I'm concerned, this movie is proof that no matter how great Shatner was at portraying Kirk, he doesn't actually "get" Star Trek.

Oh, and I guess I've also seen the reboots.  I liked the first one in spite of some MAJOR problems with it, and I also liked Star Trek Beyond.  Like the script writers for Star Trek Beyond, I think we should just pretend that Into Darkness never existed. :rolleyes:

I guess it'll be awhile before I get to watch the TNG movies, but it seems as if most of them aren't that great?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Corylea said:

Like the script writers for Star Trek Beyond, I think we should just pretend that Into Darkness never existed. :rolleyes:

To quote Chekov in ST-09...

tumblr_m12y40txTr1rrm551o1_500.jpg  ;)

 

STID is one of my least favorite ST movies.  It’s beautifully shot (I prefer to watch it without sound), but it’s just a dreadfully bad screenplay. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎16‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 3:00 AM, Sehlat Vie said:

I still think Harve Bennett’s Starfleet Academy idea had legs; would’ve preferred to have seen it go into production instead of STV, to be honest.   At any rate, we got a taste of Bennett's Starfleet Academy movie with ST09 and it really worked well.  I read the synopsis of ST Academy at Ain’tItCoolNews a long time ago and it sounded like a lot of fun.

Yes, but for fans a lot older than us were not ready for it. But.... really glad we got 6 hell we would not have got Captain Sulu or Kim Cattrall 

Corylea 

I Look forward to your TNG reviews......:laugh:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/17/2017 at 8:55 PM, Corylea said:

I've only seen the six movies that feature the TOS cast, since I'm still working my way through non-TOS Star Trek (and now there's Discovery, which is bumped to the top of my "must-watch" list).

To me, the movies feel very different than TV-era TOS; the characters feel like different people, and I don't watch the movies very often.  Why would I watch the movies when I could watch "Journey to Babel" or "Amok Time" or "The Devil in the Dark" or "Mirror, Mirror"? :P

So I have a different relationship to the movies than I think most Star Trek fans do, to the extent that most of the time, I pretend that the movies never happened.  In fact, I think so poorly of the first movie that I wrote a story called "Spock vs. Roddenberry," in which Spock neck-pinches Gene Roddenberry and writes a new script for TMP. :laugh:  (It's only around 2000 words, if you want to check it out.)

So, the movies that I've seen:

1.  Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home -- While I usually prefer serious Star Trek to funny Star Trek, this is the movie in which the characters feel the most in character to me, maybe because it's the one dear Mr. Nimoy directed after the studio realized that he understood Star Trek and gave him his head.  I love it that there's no villain in this movie (unless you consider human greed and short-sightedness to be the villain); I think requiring a bad guy for every single movie is a mistake, and I'm thrilled that Mr. Nimoy showed that one can make great Trek without one.

2.  Star Trek III:  The Search for Spock -- Spock is barely in the movie, which is a drawback for me, but I like the "caper" feel to the movie, I like it that every member of the cast gets something to do (Mr. Nimoy's Mission: Impossible days stood him in good stead there), and I love the fact that Spock remembers Kirk's name before he even remembers his own.  How heart-warming can you get? :)  This is the one I watched the day Leonard Nimoy died.

3.  Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan -- I realize that this is at the top of most fans' list, but I have trouble really enjoying a movie where Spock dies, even if he goes out as a noble hero.  I haven't been able to watch this one since Mr. Nimoy died.  I also think that Khan's quest for revenge make no sense and that Ricardo Montalban's performance is overwrought.  (Yes, I know this would be considered sacrilege by many fans.  Sue me. :P)

4.  Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country -- Judged just as a MOVIE, I think this is the best of the lot.  Judged as STAR TREK, this feels like it's slandering all of the characters.  Everyone but Spock acts horribly prejudiced here, and while the movie does teach us some lessons through it, in "Day of the Dove," the characters had to be mind-controlled by an alien entity to be so prejudiced, whereas in this movie, they do it all by themselves.  I feel as if someone's thrown mud on my heroes.  Yes, it's more realistic than some other Star Trek.  Yes, real people do have prejudices.  But part of why I like TOS is because those heroes give us something to aspire to.  I'm an atheist, so I don't have saints I can use as "too good to actually achieve, but it gives us something to strive for" role models.  I don't actually want the TOS cast to be too realistic.  (It's okay with me if the Discovery characters are realistic, because I'm not eleven anymore.  But the TOS characters are sacrosanct to me.)  At least Spock was still good...

5.  Star Trek: The Motion Picture -- This movie makes me crazy.  Starfleet promoted its best captain to admiral before he was even 40?  While it's true that they desperately need some admirals who aren't stupid or insane or something, they can have a whole lotta Kirk time after he turns 50 and is too old to keep fist-fighting alien invaders or whatever.  Plus, while Spock never seemed entirely at ease about the whole human-Vulcan hybrid thing, the guy I saw in "Turnabout Intruder" was WAY too attached to his human friends -- especially Kirk -- to go off and pretend they don't exist anymore.  So I don't buy the premise of this movie from the outset, and everyone but McCoy feels out of character.  Add in the fact that it's a retread of "The Changeling" -- which I've already seen several times, thanks -- and this movie feels like a very expensive mistake.  Nice starship porn, though. :P

6.  Star Trek V: The Final Frontier -- This movie was both stupid and mean-spirited.  It makes fun of the characters and has everyone betraying Kirk, when we know from "Space Seed" that Kirk's crew would rather be put to death than betray him.  Plus, the idea that a Vulcan would believe that God exists in a specific place that one can get to with a space ship ... you're kidding, right? :rolleyes:  I do like the idea that we need our pain, and I do like, "What does God need with a starship," but those two things aren't enough to justify a movie.  As far as I'm concerned, this movie is proof that no matter how great Shatner was at portraying Kirk, he doesn't actually "get" Star Trek.

Oh, and I guess I've also seen the reboots.  I liked the first one in spite of some MAJOR problems with it, and I also liked Star Trek Beyond.  Like the script writers for Star Trek Beyond, I think we should just pretend that Into Darkness never existed. :rolleyes:

I guess it'll be awhile before I get to watch the TNG movies, but it seems as if most of them aren't that great?

 

Quite one of the most entertaining and well written posts I've read in a while Corylea, thank you. I found myself nodding and smiling to many of your points! To be sure, there are a lot of 'out of character' moments in the movies, but the first six represent an 'era' to me in the same way the various TV shows do. But yeah, Kahn is ridiculous and the lousiest tactician that ever lived - for all his much-vaunted intelligence, he couldn't marshal his own emotions behind his intellect in pursuit of any sane course of action. And yeah, in any sensible organization, Kirk should've remained a captain after the five year mission; everyone in TUC is a 20th century human, not the enlightened (if still imperfect) 23rd century types Trek usually portrayed; and TFF is just an aberration in every way, even if there are a few really good bits in it ("I need my pain!")... Terrible film... I've sort of headcanon'd most of it out of existence, even if I watch it occasionally for the purpose of guilty pleasure.

The only TNG movie that really stands up as an enjoyable, coherent movie in its own right is First Contact, but arguably Picard is acting totally out of character in that. I have a huge fondness for Generations too, for many reasons, but I'm not going to pretend that it's a top-notch movie. Nemesis is not as dramatic or clever as it thinks it is, but if you like Tom Hardy it's worth a look to see him chewing scenery with the TNG cast. Insurrection is just dullllllllllllll - the worst sin of all, in my book.

And what is this Star Trek: Into Darkness of which you speak? :laugh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Robin Bland said:

And what is this Star Trek: Into Darkness of which you speak? :laugh:

In a perfect world....

HappyBowedCollie-size_restricted.gif :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sehlat Vie said:

In a perfect world....

HappyBowedCollie-size_restricted.gif :P

Remember this thread, when we were discussing EW critic Darren Franich's dissection of the Trek movies?

Mr Franich on STID:

http://ew.com/article/2016/07/19/star-trek-darkness-decadent-los-angeles-panorama/

Us falling over ourselves to beat up on STID (man, I think we erased our own memories of that film in this thread):

 

 

Edited by Robin Bland

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Remember this thread, when we were discussing EW critic Darren Franich's dissection of the Trek movies?

Mr Franich on STID:

http://ew.com/article/2016/07/19/star-trek-darkness-decadent-los-angeles-panorama/

Us falling over ourselves to bet up on STID (man, I think we erased our own memories of that film in this thread):

 

 

 

Ah, we were such crazy kids in those days...:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sehlat Vie said:

 

Ah, we were such crazy kids in those days...:P

Yes. I painted cartoon flames on my shuttle's warp drive nacelles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Yes. I painted cartoon flames on my shuttle's warp drive nacelles.

:punk::laugh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Corylea   
On 10/24/2017 at 6:11 PM, Robin Bland said:

Quite one of the most entertaining and well written posts I've read in a while Corylea, thank you. I found myself nodding and smiling to many of your points!

Aw, thanks; you made my day! :thumbsup2:

And thanks for your thoughts on the TNG movies.  It'll be awhile until I get to watch those, but it sounds like few of them are "must-see" material. :P

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites