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JayTheTrekkie

Past Tense part 2

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Episode Name: Past Tense part 2

Episode Number: 12

Production Number: 458

Season: 3

Directed by: Jonathan Frakes

Summary: Sisko takes charge of a hostage situation, insisting that the sanctuary's residents be treated like normal civilians. In the sanctuary, tensions rise between the hostages and their captors, and Sisko and Bashir have to keep both parties in check.

........

Edited by JayTheTrekkie

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The ending was kinda funny, when Sisko's marked down in the history books as Gabriel Bell. I also loved the scene with the hippies.

I was a good episode, but overall, I think I prefer the first part.

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Hmmm... I'm still not that much into this two-part episode. Also, I liked part 1 better as well, I dunno, it just seemed more interesting and promising, although I do like how they managed to make history turn out the right way.

It's just that I'm seriously sick and tired of having 24th century folks running around in the past, declaring "how horrible was this, omfg", "how could they let this happen" - meh. It makes them look insanely arrogant somehow. They judge, they feel superior and it just annoys the hell out of me. If they had to live in that past or our present for long enough, they would turn just as "savage" as the rest of us. They're the same species, just grew up in a different world where everything was nice and shiny. Ugh, it really riles me up, so I'm gonna stop.

Now, the episode itself... I'm still completely sold on the whole Sisko/Bashir pairing and I think it's indeed a shame they didn't get more episodes together, hehe. And I have to say that I actually liked the tiny sub plot with O'Brien and Kira doing some time traveling a lot better than the main one. I love these two together (heh) and I love the Hippie scene.

So, where does this leave me... with a 5/10 only, I'm afraid. I really liked part I better, like I said, because it did have a bit more things going on and I just grew sick and tired of Bashir's and Sisko's "it will aaaaaall get better, but for now you're HOSTAGES" attitude, yeah, like as if that is going to cheer these poor folks up...

The favorite quote of the moment goes to Kira, for her "I broke my nose" line. loooool!

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I liked it more than you did (esp. the "I broke my nose" bit; reminded me of all the TOS episodes where Spock had to cover his ear tips...).

As for this one point....

It's just that I'm seriously sick and tired of having 24th century folks running around in the past, declaring "how horrible was this, omfg", "how could they let this happen" - meh. It makes them look insanely arrogant somehow. They judge, they feel superior and it just annoys the hell out of me. If they had to live in that past or our present for long enough, they would turn just as "savage" as the rest of us. They're the same species, just grew up in a different world where everything was nice and shiny. Ugh, it really riles me up, so I'm gonna stop.

* Sehlat Vie turns up the 'hypothetically speaking' music/sound FX *

I'd like to offer up the following hypothetical scenario (hence the harp segue music... :P )

What if you found yourself in the Dark Ages? Or even the early 19th century (before modern sanitizing techniques were created)? You'd probably spend a least a few moments (as I know I certainly would) muttering to yourself, "Yech! This place looks and smells like crap!" "How do human beings live like this?" Etc. etc. And being Starfleet officers they're more prone to resist adversity than say, the average federation citizen would be. Hence the reason they themselves didn't immediately revert to savagery...

In short, one's modern perspective couldn't help but impose itself onto a far less modern (or even distasteful) way of life.

To a culture that (supposedly) knows NO poverty, hunger or rampant disease (right; tell that to the Maquis :thumbdown: ), it would be like someone from a royal family finding themselves lost in a ghetto with no means to get home. No doubt frustration with their situation would express itself (naturally) as a certain arrogance or even open hostility with the environment they're in. But with training, you wouldn't necessarily have to 'give in' to it, either....

Just a thought. ;)

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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What if you found yourself in the Dark Ages? Or even the early 19th century (before modern sanitizing techniques were created)? You'd probably spend a least a few moments (as I know I certainly would) muttering to yourself, "Yech! This place looks and smells like crap!" "How do human beings live like this?" Etc. etc.

You don't even need to go back that far.

Children of today can't understand how their parents lived in a world without Internet, DVDs, MP3s, mobile phones, hundreds of TV channels etc. !

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I liked it more than you did (esp. the "I broke my nose" bit; reminded me of all the TOS episodes where Spock had to cover his ear tips...).

As for this one point....

It's just that I'm seriously sick and tired of having 24th century folks running around in the past, declaring "how horrible was this, omfg", "how could they let this happen" - meh. It makes them look insanely arrogant somehow. They judge, they feel superior and it just annoys the hell out of me. If they had to live in that past or our present for long enough, they would turn just as "savage" as the rest of us. They're the same species, just grew up in a different world where everything was nice and shiny. Ugh, it really riles me up, so I'm gonna stop.

* Sehlat Vie turns up the 'hypothetically speaking' music/sound FX *

I'd like to offer up the following hypothetical scenario (hence the harp segue music... :P )

What if you found yourself in the Dark Ages? Or even the early 19th century (before modern sanitizing techniques were created)? You'd probably spend a least a few moments (as I know I certainly would) muttering to yourself, "Yech! This place looks and smells like crap!" "How do human beings live like this?" Etc. etc. And being Starfleet officers they're more prone to resist adversity than say, the average federation citizen would be. Hence the reason they themselves didn't immediately revert to savagery...

In short, one's modern perspective couldn't help but impose itself onto a far less modern (or even distasteful) way of life.

To a culture that (supposedly) knows NO poverty, hunger or rampant disease (right; tell that to the Maquis :thumbdown: ), it would be like someone from a royal family finding themselves lost in a ghetto with no means to get home. No doubt frustration with their situation would express itself (naturally) as a certain arrogance or even open hostility with the environment they're in. But with training, you wouldn't necessarily have to 'give in' to it, either....

Just a thought. ;)

I don't know, I would concentrate on how to get back to my own time instead of trying to impose my views on the people in that time period, lol.

Sure I wouldn't like it, but I would ALSO know that they live like this because they don't KNOW any better YET. Of course it would be tedious, I'm not arguing about that one, but I would always keep in mind that which Zef'No just said (thanks for giving me that example, Zef :) )- I come from the very last generation that actually grew up without cell phones or anything, and it really pains me QUITE often how today's "kids" view that world they know almost nothing about. It's impossible for them to imagine that there was a time when it was NOT possible to make a phone call whenever you wanted to, and that you couldn't just google things. Their attitude is often QUITE arrogant and even hostile sometimes and they do serve as an example for me as to how NOT act. I would remember that. I would be frustrated in the Dark Ages, defnitely, but I would try not to run around with a "I know soooo much better" attitude. And hey, I'd probably smash a few things into pieces. In private, though, lol.

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I come from the very last generation that actually grew up without cell phones or anything, and it really pains me QUITE often how today's "kids" view that world they know almost nothing about. It's impossible for them to imagine that there was a time when it was NOT possible to make a phone call whenever you wanted to, and that you couldn't just google things. Their attitude is often QUITE arrogant and even hostile sometimes and they do serve as an example for me as to how NOT act. I would remember that.

Preach on, brother! :thumbup:

I was born in the freakin' 1960s! The era of "Mad Men", for gods' sake. :laugh:

The phone used to be about the size of lunchbox (also doubled as a lethal weapon in domestic disputes) and it was hooked tightly into the wall; and it had a rotary dial on it that make calls by pulling the dial counterclockwise at different lengths for each number! I told this to my goddaughter and she laughed at first; until she realized I was serious, and then stared at me like I was an unfrozen Neanderthal.... :dontgetit:

caveman-lawyer2.jpg

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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... it had a rotary dial on it that make calls by pulling the dial counterclockwise at different lengths for each number!

Are you sure you pulled it "counterclockwise"?

Because either that's another weird American thing, or else your phone was very different to the ones I remember!

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... it had a rotary dial on it that make calls by pulling the dial counterclockwise at different lengths for each number!

Are you sure you pulled it "counterclockwise"?

Because either that's another weird American thing, or else your phone was very different to the ones I remember!

You know? It's been 30 years or so since I've used one (I think my parents finally upgraded to push button in 1980 or so), but you're right; it may very well have been clockwise. :)

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It's funny to look back on the 80's and 90's vision for the early 21st century in shows like this and Back to the Future part 2. If we transported someone from the early 90's to today, would they be disappointed because we aren't riding around on hoverboards?

One thing this episode gets right is the importance of the internet, although it's referred to simply as 'Net' here. When this episode was produced, people were running Windows 3.1 and dial-up modems to log onto newsgroups. One flaw in the story was how easily Sisko could assume Bell's identity and also make it look like one of the police raid casualties was Bell. In our reality which is obsessed with terrorism, there's no way that they let that one just slide because he's a drifter.

One other thing I noticed is that these Bell riots were to occur in Sept 2024, which would have been two months before the presidential election. It might be the second term of whoever gets elected in 2016. 

Edited by Hammer

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It's funny to look back on the 80's and 90's vision for the early 21st century in shows like this and Back to the Future part 2. If we transported someone from the early 90's to today, would they be disappointed because we aren't riding around on hoverboards?

One thing this episode gets right is the importance of the internet, although it's referred to simply as 'Net' here. When this episode was produced, people were running Windows 3.1 and dial-up modems to log onto newsgroups. One flaw in the story was how easily Sisko could assume Bell's identity and also make it look like one of the police raid casualties was Bell. In our reality which is obsessed with terrorism, there's no way that they let that one just slide because he's a drifter.

One other thing I noticed is that these Bell riots were to occur in Sept 2024, which would have been two months before the presidential election. It might be the second term of whoever gets elected in 2016. 

Well, from the state of things in PT P2?  I'd say, in that universe, Donald Trump won two terms.... the poor are huddled together behind giant walled off districts (I can only imagine what the US southern borders look like!), the middle class is destroyed, and there is inadequate funding for medical/psychiatric care.  

Yup; sounds like Trump won....:laugh:

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I originally posted that this probably takes place sometime during Trump's second term, but I thought it would make the thread KM-worthy so I deleted it. ;)

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