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Ael

Redemption Part 2

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Episode name: "Redemption Part 2"

Season: 5

Director: David Carson

The Enterprise works to expose Romulan meddling in the Klingon Civil War, as Gowron and Worf take on the House of Duras.

Memory Alpha

*********

Meddling? We were not meddl...well, okay, I suppose we were ;)

This is one I could watch repeatedly, and I actually have! :laugh: Again, I don't watch for the Klingons, only for the Romulans and one in particular. But the story line is kind of interesting.

No one seems to like Toral very much, do they? :laugh: Thought Sela was gonna smack him one, too, the first time I saw it. I was all - awwww, drats, when she didn't lol

Of course, have to like the look on Picard and Troi's face, when they see Sela for the first time. They were like - WTF am I seeing? No wai! :huh:

Of course, more of my father in there. :thumbsup2: Sela irritates me a bit, though. In some cases, you could tell she was irritating him, too! :glare::laugh:

I'm a little nit picky with how MA and other places talk about Movar. Um, he's a General. Generals do NOT serve under Commanders. Their whole military is complicated. If she has been assigned as Commander for that mission then yeah, he will kinda have to somewhat be under her orders, but could just as easily step up and push her aside and take over. (He should have and they might not have lost LOL) But I also think that he was there to make sure she didn't royally F things up (Um, whoops!) or something. Because sometimes they DO that kind of thing. Send a higher rank along with a lower, to make sure nothing gets extremely messed up. So...yeah. He isn't her lackey or something for pete sakes! One site had him listed as a sub commander! I LMAO at that one!! /endgripe :laugh:

Well, I guess that's it.

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well hey, even in human military circles its not uncommon to have someone of much higher stature aboard a vessel but still stand by while the vessels captain issues the orders, after all, its the captains ship, so nnyaa! :):thumbsup2:

as for Toral, Impudent Wretch!! :thumbdown:

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I'm also always waiting for Sela to simply throttle that Duras brat! :laugh:

I love how Sela tries to confuse Jean-Luc and all, though... and I also love how they all gape at her, yeah! Aww. Shocked!Jean-Luc FTW! :blush:

And I've always thought that Sela somehow bothered the hell out of Movar. *lol* I mean he's clearly not pleased with quite a few of the things that she does. ;) And, to me, it always seemed that they're somehow both in charge. It's only logi... err, natural that there will be... disagreements. ;)

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I am honestly surprised that no one has come in to discuss these. With them being predominantly Klingon centered episodes, and many Klingon fans here...I assumed it was a given.

I was told not to worry about it and that it wasn't the case, but I feel I need to ask - Is it because of my posting and how I am wording things that is making people not want to comment? I'm not upset or anything (perfectly calm in my chair, actually) but I would like to know.

And I caught that, Mrs P. You were gonna say logical ;) And yeah, I think she bothered the hell out of him, too.

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Nah, it's just that I think there were things that were discussed many times that don't need to be covered. But, yes, this is one of Trek's finest Klingon-centered episodes. :happy: I'm even happy to see Sela, because (to me, anyway) it signified Denise Crosby's sort-of return to TNG. :biggrin:

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Doesn't stop other topics =P And I honestly don't see where this stuff has been discussed to death before. *shrugs*

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Doesn't stop other topics =P And I honestly don't see where this stuff has been discussed to death before. *shrugs*

Dunno. Klingon overkill? :P

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This was good to see work stuggling with his role in the klingon war and seeing data commanding the USS SUTHERLAND.Why was worf back on the enterprise after resigning from starfleet to join Gowron in the klingon civil war

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Part 2 was great.

At least Worf went back to Starfleet, Starfleet is his home!

I always thought that was a bit of a cheat, actually. Worf resigned his commission, he shouldn't just be able to return and start where he left off at will when he feels like it.

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Part 2 was great.

At least Worf went back to Starfleet, Starfleet is his home!

I always thought that was a bit of a cheat, actually. Worf resigned his commission, he shouldn't just be able to return and start where he left off at will when he feels like it.

Yeah, I feel the same way... it's really possible to resign and then to just come back whenever one wants...? :dontgetit: Considering how picky Starfleet is with all the candidates for even the Academy, this really doesn't make much sense. Hmm.

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^ Its kinda like the majority of the time, when people should be feeling true emotional conflict into other episodes, and don't. The writers probably didin't want to bother with having to force Dorn from the show, while they made the character of Worf, go through geting reinstated or what have you. This was an easy way out for them. They probably hoped no one would notice.

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Part 2 was great.

At least Worf went back to Starfleet, Starfleet is his home!

I always thought that was a bit of a cheat, actually. Worf resigned his commission, he shouldn't just be able to return and start where he left off at will when he feels like it.

Yeah, I feel the same way... it's really possible to resign and then to just come back whenever one wants...? :dontgetit: Considering how picky Starfleet is with all the candidates for even the Academy, this really doesn't make much sense. Hmm.

The only fix I can think of for it is that Picard hadn't yet, formerly submitted his resignation to Starfleet yet.

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The only fix I can think of for it is that Picard hadn't yet, formerly submitted his resignation to Starfleet yet.

That wouldn't surprise me, given how well Picard's gotten to know Klingons by this stage of the show.

I reckon deep down a large part of him sypathises with the plight he was in, yet his hands were tied by Starfleet. The Prime Directive in the fact that he stated himself, that if Worf did go and participate as a Starfleet officer he'd be dragging the Federation into a full on war.

What I found odd was someone as young as Sela was in such a prominent position of power, but I'm not the resident expert on Romulans ;)

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She shouldn't have been. You usually don't see your first command before age 60. Again, it was, let's find a way around the norm to have a cool episode. No 23 year old would EVER command a ship! She wouldn't have even been a Junior Uhlan, yet! That's the lowest rank, and she wouldn't have touched it before age 29.

Oh Lord...here I go... LOL

*stops and runs away before she sits here and types all morning about Romulans and their military!*

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Yeah, the only way to get Sela in it was to do it the way they did. They had to work around the timeframe established in "yesterday's Enterprise." Maybe since she was the daughter of a high ranking official, she was able to use that to gain command?

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Been watching this today. I love that 'Bwoahshit!' look on everyone's faces when they first see Sela and I love the fact O'Brien comes to the fore on the Enterprise once more (like he does in The Wounded.)

Having read Ael's fic I see Movar in here and think to myself 'Why the f*ck are you acting like that? How'd he get to be a general thinking as naively as that?'

Oh one more thing, I want to punch Commander Hobson. What a predjudiced tw@t. :thumbdown:

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She shouldn't have been. You usually don't see your first command before age 60. Again, it was, let's find a way around the norm to have a cool episode. No 23 year old would EVER command a ship! She wouldn't have even been a Junior Uhlan, yet! That's the lowest rank, and she wouldn't have touched it before age 29.

Maybe it was a compromise between her Human age and the Romulan system. I mean, being half-Human she would probably have a shorter lifespan than full-blooded Romulans (no-one quote Spock to me, I think it's pushing it that he's still alive :P) and being the child of a powerful military figure she was given the opportunity to fully realise her potential, so to speak?

And keep in mind that virtually nothing in the Romulan (or Klingon, or any other) military is substantiated by canon evidence, so the writers weren't bound to anything that came previously and as such could do what they wanted*. ;)

This ep is kinda cool, though some of the battles seemed a little forced. That may just come from being used to more "modern" sci-fi battles but I expect a little more than an emotionless "pah!" when a Klingon commander destroys a load of enemy ships. :P

The tachyon detection grid was also a neat idea. Data trying to be all angry with his pleb first officer was funny, too. :biggrin:

Edit: * Well, that doesn't usually stop them but hey.

Edited by GenesisDevice

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I know, Star! Pisses me off just to think about it. :thumbdown: I was like...uh....hello? What are you doing? I usually watch the episode to see him and hear his voice...that's about it. The episode doesn't do it for me otherwirse. I'm not really into Klingon centric episodes and never really have been.

I would say for his part that it was it bad writing and that's all there is to it. NO General would EVER act that way. Well...that and they wanted Sela to really take the spotlight in this episode. She took it and failed the mission anyways. :thumbdown:

Look at the later seasons of DS9 - they KNOW how to write a devoious, cunning, manipulative *Romulan* character. IMO, they should have brought Movar back in the later season of DS9. They brought in that other general instead, though. He was scrawny and looked kinda...vampirish or something. lol He kinda creeped me out. Velal was his name...I think.

GD - Romulan society doesn't work that way. I know some people can scream about canon and what not, but with Romulans you basically have to use the novels and the published RP guides as our canon. Even excluding it all, to be a Commander at age 23, she would have had to have been a Uhlan as early as age 6! Its just not believeable that she is a commander at 23.

Now I'm mad at this episode... *grumbles*

*Hugs her daddy* Its not your fault they wrote you terribly. Stupid writers. :thumbdown::loopy:

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Toral is an absolute prick. I'm surprised Lursa and B'Etor thought they could get away with using him as their spokesman. Although, seeing Sela was fabulous! :inlove::giggle:

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I giggled when Toral got backhanded. :giggle: Yes, yes...it was in part one, but it was still hilarious! Do I get a turn? :P They used him because he was supposedly Duras' son, or whatever they were squawking about.

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Toral was just their puppet, really; their way of getting onto the Council since women aren't allowed to serve. I think if he had become leader they would have made him change the law so they were allowed... and then he would be found dead not long after.

Hmm...

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I love the second part, it's even better than the first. There's so much that I like about it, seeing Worf around he's people full time for the first time in adult life is an interesting one. I also really like the blockade parts as well, Data ruled with an iron first as captain of the Sutherland. He's first officer was possibly the worst I have ever seen as well, seeing Data order him about like that was pretty cool. I think this is worth a 9 out of 10.

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Episode name: "Redemption Part 2"

Season: 5

Director: David Carson

The Enterprise works to expose Romulan meddling in the Klingon Civil War, as Gowron and Worf take on the House of Duras.

Memory Alpha

*********

Meddling? We were not meddl...well, okay, I suppose we were wink.gif

This is one I could watch repeatedly, and I actually have! laugh.gif Again, I don't watch for the Klingons, only for the Romulans and one in particular. But the story line is kind of interesting.

No one seems to like Toral very much, do they? laugh.gif Thought Sela was gonna smack him one, too, the first time I saw it. I was all - awwww, drats, when she didn't lol

Of course, have to like the look on Picard and Troi's face, when they see Sela for the first time. They were like - WTF am I seeing? No wai! huh.gif

Of course, more of my father in there. thumbsup.gif Sela irritates me a bit, though. In some cases, you could tell she was irritating him, too! glare.giflaugh.gif

I'm a little nit picky with how MA and other places talk about Movar. Um, he's a General. Generals do NOT serve under Commanders. Their whole military is complicated. If she has been assigned as Commander for that mission then yeah, he will kinda have to somewhat be under her orders, but could just as easily step up and push her aside and take over. (He should have and they might not have lost LOL) But I also think that he was there to make sure she didn't royally F things up (Um, whoops!) or something. Because sometimes they DO that kind of thing. Send a higher rank along with a lower, to make sure nothing gets extremely messed up. So...yeah. He isn't her lackey or something for pete sakes! One site had him listed as a sub commander! I LMAO at that one!! /endgripe laugh.gif

Well, I guess that's it.

I'd always assumed that Movar was present as a supervisor for Sela, given her young age and relative inexperience in the field. Given what's known about the Romulan military, it's astonishing that she was able to attain the rank of commander by age twenty three, even with her father's known politcal ties. Commander Donatra appears extremely young, as well, though Memory Beta lists her age as fifty two at the time of Nemesis (Dina Meyer, the actress who portrayed her, was thirty four at the time of filming).

In any event, Sela's single-minded determination with bringing down the Federation never got her anywhere. Though I can somewhat understand her feelings about her mother, I don't pretend to empathize with her feelings about Captain Picard. Does she really despise him that much solely because he allowed her mother to transfer to the Enterprise-C? If so, doesn't she realize that the Picard she encounters never did a such a thing? The events spawning her hatred took place in an entirely different timeline: it is the Picard of that reality she should be angry with, not the Picard of this universe.

As Sela is never seen again after Unification, I suppose it's possible that she was arrested and interrogated by Koval. I can imagine him hovering over her, mind-probes in his hand, saying, "I will know what you know."

--Captain Sisko

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