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Mr.Picard

Yesterday's Enterprise

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Unless he was a conscript. A "kid soldier" is always the assumption I made. He was in full uniform before that happened in the "Prime Timeline," plus the fact the Federation was losing the war led me to believe he actually was in Starfleet by that time.

:WarBird:

Sounds reasonable, given we hear Picard mention how badly the war's been going, about how some in Starfleet reckon they've got about six months left, as well as Yar mentioning losing over half their fleet to the Klingons now.

They would have lost a hell of a lot of man power between this and worlds the Klingons would have probably annexed from the Federation as they press on with their offensive.

Wesley by now would be coming up to 18 years old if his birthday hadn't already passed by then not to mention in RL there's plenty of contries all too happy to accept army recruits at 16 years of age.

Starfleet would probably have a fast track course of some sort fro new recruits in the face of this, meaning they wouldn't be spending four years training everyone.

We have some evidence for this in DS9 where Nog becomes an Ensign within three years of entering Starfleet

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That's a reasonable assumption I suppose. I still think that fact that he's a lieutenant at 18 is pushing it too far though.

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^ I agree. Kinda like how in Redemption, Sela is a commander at age 23. That simply wouldn't happen under any circumstance. She wouldn't have hit the rank of commander until she was at least 55 - 70.

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This would probably be my all time favorite TNG, in a cluster of a handful of favorites ("Darmok" and AGT are two other examples). I'm a history nerd, so I really liked this alternate take on history. A lot of people have criticized Denise Crosby for her choice to leave after S1, and while there is some merit to some of those criticisms, I'm always impressed by how well the alternate Tasha works in this episode. She fits in really well with the story and is not merely a way to bring the character or actress back, and she has excellent chemistry with Castillo. As Voyager aptly put it, Denise got a chance to show how good the character could be when properly supported (something which didn't happen in S1).

One thing I've found with this and several other eps is that S3 is when TNG really started to heat up and produce some gems. The first two seasons were a little shaky, but from S3 on the show started to have a higher level of quality. It got its legs.

Edited by Unicron

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The first couple of seasons are always the testing grounds for any series. They have to find themselves as a series and establish the kind of style and stories they're going to have.

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Oh my gosh, I can't believe I haven't posted in this topic yet!! :shock:

This was the first TNG episode that I watched since I became a Star Trek fan (which was after the new movie came out), so it's already got a special place in my heart. (I sound like such a sap saying that, don't I? :blush:)

I was having a conversation with my dad about the Enterprise-D and the original Enterprise from TOS, when we started getting into Enterprise-C, and he said there was an episode that featured both C and D, so that piqued my interest, and I ended up watching it, and enjoying it very much.

Worf and "a warrior's drink"...ah, such a good scene. And Worf laughing for once! "HAHAHAHAHA!! Impossible."

I definitely agree with what Voyager and Unicron said about Tasha Yar in this episode. She definitely fits in here, and her character was waaaay more developed in this one episode than most of the first season. I've been going through Season 1 lately, and I still prefer YestEnt Tasha over Season 1 Tasha. She just didn't have the chance to develop her character enough. But, whatever she wasn't in Season 1, she definitely makes up for it in this episode. Plus, (I'm going to quote Unicron here) she has excellent chemistry with Castillo. They're my favorite pairing in the show (even though it's only for ONE episode). :inlove:

I noticed later that Castillo is the same guy who played Shooter McGavin in Happy Gilmore ("Just stay out of my way, or you'll pay. Listen to what I say.") :giggle:

Edited by Varekai

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Some fans have complained about Guinan's role in the ep, feeling that her observations make it too easy for the characters to notice that something's wrong. But I don't share that view myself, and some of the best scenes are between her and Picard, who initially feels (as Riker does) that sending the C back to be destroyed is no better than an unpleasant future. I've also seen the interesting suggestion that the alternate Worf should have been the Klingon who demands Picard's surrender. There were several other planned deaths which were never filmed due to budget restrictions - Wesley and Data would have been shown dying in the battle.

Edited by Unicron

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Well if Guinan wasn't there no one would ever have know that the timeline was wrong and the war would have continued, so I don't think there was anything wrong with Guinan's role either.

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Episode name: "Yesterday's Enterprise"

Season: 3

Director: David Carson

***********

First of all: Rachel Garrett - worthy.gifworthy.gif !!!! What an awesome woman. Totally. And no, not just because she tells Crusher to STFU. wink.gif

I love this episode for so many reasons. The modified uniforms, for example.

And I REALLY want to know what happened between Jean-Luc and Riker. They're REALLY bitchy towards one another in this alternate reality.

And then there's Jean-Luc's awesome jump to the tactical station at the end. I love how he stands there alone, defending his ship, fighting a hopeless battle. Ooooh, my hero. inlove.gifinlove.gifinlove.gif

This was the defining episode that made me respect Captain Picard as a Starship Captain. At the end, there was no meeting to decided to tell that Klingon commander to stuff his surrender request and fight to provide cover for the Enterprise - C's escape. Plus it was GOOD to see Tasha Yar back for a limited time.

Edited by Thy'lek Shran

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This is a really good episode, and is probably in the top 20 of TNG. I really like alternate timelines and all of that kind of stuff, so this really interests me. Captain Garrett is really good as well, and it was a shame to have to see her die. I'd give this 8 out of 10!

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Before seeing this episode, I always wondered what came between 1701, 1701A and 1701D. It was never mentioned before this episode what happened to the C. Maybe it was bad luck to talk about it or something.

Overall a very entertaining episode. It was a nice change of pace. They could have omitted the Yar B story and the episode would have worked fine without her. Her 'daughter' of course appears in a later episode. Other than an explanation into what happened, not much comes of it other than giving Denise Crosby, who obviously regretted her decision to leave the show, a guest appearance as a Romulan.

Some questions arise though, how did the Klingons become so strong militarily in this timeline? Surely the Romulans were the more immediate enemy for the Klingons to take care of. A peace deal between the two is pretty much out of the question. So how were the Klingons winning their two front war? If the future timeline ceased to exist after the return of the C to it's own time, shouldn't Yar have just faded away? The D's bulky nature was explained away with the 'able to carry 4000 troops' line, as having a big empty ship wouldn't have made sense, but what was it doing out there on the front lines? I suppose they were strapped for ships, but still it seems odd. A hint into Guinan's powers is shown here, she can sense changes to the timeline, but it's kind of explained away as a gut feeling rather than an ability her species has.

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"Yesterday's Enterprise" is one of my top three episodes of TNG. Right behind "Inner Light" and ahead of "Best of Both Worlds."

It's hard to believe this episode has such a long and tortured writing history. It certainly doesn't show.

No complaints AT ALL on this one (a very rare thing for me, BTW).

A solid 10! ;)

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Just finished re-watching this one - and it's one of those very rare TNG episodes that don't make it into my top 50 TNG episodes but still happen to achieve a rather episode rating.

As usual, I shall say something about the plot. (Before I launch one of my endless OH MY GOD HOW ADORABLE IS JEAN-LUC speeches.) I really love the whole alternate timeline touch, and since I'm a big fan of 'what if' universes, this one is just what I like. I love the uniforms, I love the bridge layout... but there is one thing I love above all else and that is darker!Jean-Luc. I wouldn't want an entire series focused on him, but one episode of this is just the right thing to send me right into NC-17-rated-JLP-mode. Because, well, everyone knows that I totally have a thing for srsbsns!Jean-Luc.

FIRST OF ALL, DAT BELT. AND DAT PHASER THAT HE IS CARRYING. HRRRRR. Also, can we talk about the wonderful things he says.

"It's the same bridge. Nothing has changed." You're right, I still would like to surprise you in your captain's chair. That sure hasn't changed.

*slams huge PADD thingy on the table* "Not good enough, dammit, not good enough!" *pterodactyl screech*

"I need more." *DYING WHALE NOISE*

"Evrrrrry instinct tells me this is wrong, it is dangerrrrrahs, it is fehw-tile!" oh GOD stop being so upset it brings out your accent and that is just NOT WISE when I am present because aksdnasdnhasdasd

*whisper* "The war is going very badly for the Federation..." DON'T WHISPER EITHER WHAT ARE YOU EVEN DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO ME

"Let's make sure history never forgets the name... Enterprise." I'll make sure YOU won't, darling

What IS this man. I can't even start to express just how much these lines excite me.

Now, on to the slash! Because this episode actually HAS some, not much, but some - I still want to know why Jean-Luc and Riker are hating one another so much! What happened? Ex lovers, perhaps? AND THAT SCENE IN THE READY ROOM when Jean-Luc is all like 'B***h, this is a briefing, I ain't looking for your OPINION' when Riker tries to disagree with him. LOL what even IS going on?

Also, speaking of shipping, I ship Jean-Luc/Rachel Garrett like I don't even know. Now THERE'S a nice lady for him, no doubt. I wish this episode had been a two-part episode and the two of them had gotten... a bit more familiar with one another. Ahem. Ahem. Aheeeeeemmmmm.

I haven't even written down half of what I would have liked to write because I was too busy with making non-human noises whenever there's a Jean-Luc moment and I was barely able to pay any attention because this Jean-Luc just makes me so excited in general and NOW HE IS IN HD, TOO. *tilt* This episode totally gets a 9/10.

The favorite quote of the moment award for this episode goes to Guinan's "This is not a ship of war. This is a ship of peace." Ah, TNG, this is why I love you.

The favorite Jean-Luc moment award for this episode goes to the one in which he growls "That'll be the day" after the Klingons are like "SURRENDER" and then he jumps over that bridge railing thing and operates the weapons manually. HRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR god yes please you are so determined and I would have kissed you right there

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You think David Carson has an obsession with making that fuse box thing in engineering explode? Afterall, he was in the directors chair both times it did, and both times, once that box exploded, the ship was doomed....

I for one believe David Carson is a very talented director. He can bring drama out of action scenes that makes them super exciting, even on a small budget.

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Just finished re-watching this one - and it's one of those very rare TNG episodes that don't make it into my top 50 TNG episodes but still happen to achieve a rather episode rating.

As usual, I shall say something about the plot. (Before I launch one of my endless OH MY GOD HOW ADORABLE IS JEAN-LUC speeches.) I really love the whole alternate timeline touch, and since I'm a big fan of 'what if' universes, this one is just what I like. I love the uniforms, I love the bridge layout... but there is one thing I love above all else and that is darker!Jean-Luc. I wouldn't want an entire series focused on him, but one episode of this is just the right thing to send me right into NC-17-rated-JLP-mode. Because, well, everyone knows that I totally have a thing for srsbsns!Jean-Luc.

FIRST OF ALL, DAT BELT. AND DAT PHASER THAT HE IS CARRYING. HRRRRR. Also, can we talk about the wonderful things he says.

"It's the same bridge. Nothing has changed." You're right, I still would like to surprise you in your captain's chair. That sure hasn't changed.

*slams huge PADD thingy on the table* "Not good enough, dammit, not good enough!" *pterodactyl screech*

"I need more." *DYING WHALE NOISE*

"Evrrrrry instinct tells me this is wrong, it is dangerrrrrahs, it is fehw-tile!" oh GOD stop being so upset it brings out your accent and that is just NOT WISE when I am present because aksdnasdnhasdasd

*whisper* "The war is going very badly for the Federation..." DON'T WHISPER EITHER WHAT ARE YOU EVEN DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO ME

"Let's make sure history never forgets the name... Enterprise." I'll make sure YOU won't, darling

What IS this man. I can't even start to express just how much these lines excite me.

Now, on to the slash! Because this episode actually HAS some, not much, but some - I still want to know why Jean-Luc and Riker are hating one another so much! What happened? Ex lovers, perhaps? AND THAT SCENE IN THE READY ROOM when Jean-Luc is all like 'B***h, this is a briefing, I ain't looking for your OPINION' when Riker tries to disagree with him. LOL what even IS going on?

Also, speaking of shipping, I ship Jean-Luc/Rachel Garrett like I don't even know. Now THERE'S a nice lady for him, no doubt. I wish this episode had been a two-part episode and the two of them had gotten... a bit more familiar with one another. Ahem. Ahem. Aheeeeeemmmmm.

I haven't even written down half of what I would have liked to write because I was too busy with making non-human noises whenever there's a Jean-Luc moment and I was barely able to pay any attention because this Jean-Luc just makes me so excited in general and NOW HE IS IN HD, TOO. *tilt* This episode totally gets a 9/10.

The favorite quote of the moment award for this episode goes to Guinan's "This is not a ship of war. This is a ship of peace." Ah, TNG, this is why I love you.

The favorite Jean-Luc moment award for this episode goes to the one in which he growls "That'll be the day" after the Klingons are like "SURRENDER" and then he jumps over that bridge railing thing and operates the weapons manually. HRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR god yes please you are so determined and I would have kissed you right there

gandalf_to_the_music.gif

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This was one of the best TNG episodes, though I never saw the appeal of Rachel Garrett. I didn't find anything so badass about her, and all she did was get killed.

But Yesterday's Enterprise was a great idea.

So great, that I wish it were possible to rewrite the story to feature Kirk and crew, as if they were taken out of the Battle at Khitomer.

The story would have to be changed a bit, but that would have been a hell of a cool crossover.

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This was one of the best TNG episodes, though I never saw the appeal of Rachel Garrett. I didn't find anything so badass about her, and all she did was get killed.

OK, huh?!?

You saw NOTHING heroic about a person who chooses to quite possibly sacrifice herself and her ship just for a chance to make a better future?

A future that she herself won't even be able to participate in, but will benefit millions in future generations?

That is the very definition of heroism.

And the fact that she died before the plan was enacted is irrelevant; she still CHOSE to go back, knowing full well that she and her crew might die, just to give a future Federation a better shot....

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This was one of the best TNG episodes, though I never saw the appeal of Rachel Garrett. I didn't find anything so badass about her, and all she did was get killed.

huh.gif

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I just re-watched this episode....

I don't know why I keep (erroneously) remembering this as a two-parter. Feels like one for some reason. One day I'll get it through my head that it isn't one.

One of the best TNG episodes ever. I loved the expansionist Klingon Empire - and it was kind of interesting to hint that the Federation would lose against them. I'd love to see more of that time line...

I also love the Archer IV reference (at this time...not a reference) but connected to ENT? It's nice. How many planets did he get named after him!?!? :P

One thing I thought was weird? Guinan telling Tasha she died a "meaningless death". What's up with that? Pretty cruel to say. So every red shirt that dies on an away mission dies a meaningless death? Who decides if one death is meaningful and another is not? I understand that this was a nod to how people felt Tasha died a pointless death (this was before major characters dying randomly like they do now in shows. Back then main characters got extravagant deaths). So I can see how they slipped that in as a nod to how people felt about her original death. Just seemed like a clumsy line... Although I can stomach it because it set up Tasha leaving the D to serve on the C. Makes sense.

The ENT-C was a great looking ship and a nice in-between the B and D. I love seeing an "evolution" there. Although...it was insanely slow. It took like 20 minutes to enter the rift....:P

Garret was an amazing captain with the little screen time she had. I can honestly understand why she got her hands on an Enterprise. Harriman on the other hand...must've been an admiral's son. :P

I only wish that maybe they could have slipped in Worf as a Klingon commander. :P And I wish the re-mastered version had....upped the battle a bit. Still kind of clunky. Especially compared to how fast Klingon ships move in DS9.

Overrall? A solid 9 from me.

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I just re-watched this episode....

I don't know why I keep (erroneously) remembering this as a two-parter. Feels like one for some reason. One day I'll get it through my head that it isn't one.

One of the best TNG episodes ever. I loved the expansionist Klingon Empire - and it was kind of interesting to hint that the Federation would lose against them. I'd love to see more of that time line...

I also love the Archer IV reference (at this time...not a reference) but connected to ENT? It's nice. How many planets did he get named after him!?!? :P

One thing I thought was weird? Guinan telling Tasha she died a "meaningless death". What's up with that? Pretty cruel to say. So every red shirt that dies on an away mission dies a meaningless death? Who decides if one death is meaningful and another is not? I understand that this was a nod to how people felt Tasha died a pointless death (this was before major characters dying randomly like they do now in shows. Back then main characters got extravagant deaths). So I can see how they slipped that in as a nod to how people felt about her original death. Just seemed like a clumsy line... Although I can stomach it because it set up Tasha leaving the D to serve on the C. Makes sense.

The ENT-C was a great looking ship and a nice in-between the B and D. I love seeing an "evolution" there. Although...it was insanely slow. It took like 20 minutes to enter the rift.... :P

Garret was an amazing captain with the little screen time she had. I can honestly understand why she got her hands on an Enterprise. Harriman on the other hand...must've been an admiral's son. :P

I only wish that maybe they could have slipped in Worf as a Klingon commander. :P And I wish the re-mastered version had....upped the battle a bit. Still kind of clunky. Especially compared to how fast Klingon ships move in DS9.

Overrall? A solid 9 from me.

Even though I went a point higher in my rating (this is one of my favorite ST episodes of any generation), I generally agree with everything you said.

And yes, Guinan's cutting remark about dying a 'meaningless' death did seem to be a bit.... er, harsh. :dontgetit: But as you say, it was meant to goad Tasha into helping the Enterprise C set history 'right' again. I give it a pass (although I'd hate to hear Guinan's opinion of people who die of autoerotic asphyxiation... :laugh: ).

And yes, I would've LOVED to have seen a sequel in this timeline (and no, I don't mean with Sela).

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The 'meaningless' death remark actually ties in nicely with how Tasha's death is viewed in "Skin of Evil" - it's a RANDOM death. Tasha 'simply' dies because Armus feels like killing her. A momentary decision, made simply because he could. There's no purpose behind it, no hidden motive, no meaning, no anger, nothing. That's what the whole 'meaningless' thing refers to. (I think Guinan calls the death 'empty' as well.) And that's what's bothering alternate!Tasha - she wants for her death to count for something. She wants a more heroic death, not one that happened because an oil creature had a particularly bad day.

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The 'meaningless' death remark actually ties in nicely with how Tasha's death is viewed in "Skin of Evil" - it's a RANDOM death. Tasha 'simply' dies because Armus feels like killing her. A momentary decision, made simply because he could. There's no purpose behind it, no hidden motive, no meaning, no anger, nothing. That's what the whole 'meaningless' thing refers to. (I think Guinan calls the death 'empty' as well.) And that's what's bothering alternate!Tasha - she wants for her death to count for something. She wants a more heroic death, not one that happened because an oil creature had a particularly bad day.

That was one of the things I really loved about Tasha's death in "Skin Of Evil." She died just like a TOS redshirt, except that this was a 'redshirt' (gold, whatever) that we the audience actually CARED about. It kind of makes you wish EVERY security officer death on the show had this kind of sendoff. Death can be random and 'meaningless', but how we choose to deal with that loss doesn't have to be.

But despite the tears I shed for Tasha in SOE, I had no objection to her alternate universe doppelgänger getting an appropriate 'hero's death' in YE (for me, death is death; it's ugly and sad no matter how much 'meaning' we assign it... at the end of the day that person we cared about is still dead).

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I understand alternate!Tasha's feelings as well. And I, too, like the way "Skin Of Evil" handled things. Both episodes, "Skin Of Evil" and "Yesterday's Enterprise" have their own way of dealing with the death or impending death of Tasha Yar (remember, she didn't exactly die a hero's death, she was captured by the Romulans and then executed when she tried to escape).

The only thing I never understood is the whole Sela thing (I'm not complaining, there would be no "Unification" without Sela), but hey, that's another story. lol

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I understand alternate!Tasha's feelings as well. And I, too, like the way "Skin Of Evil" handled things. Both episodes, "Skin Of Evil" and "Yesterday's Enterprise" have their own way of dealing with the death or impending death of Tasha Yar (remember, she didn't exactly die a hero's death, she was captured by the Romulans and then executed when she tried to escape).

The only thing I never understood is the whole Sela thing (I'm not complaining, there would be no "Unification" without Sela), but hey, that's another story. lol

I always thought Sela looked a bit ridiculous with that 'little Dutch boy' wig of hers (and let's NOT get into Romulan shoulder pads, OK?), but I think Denise Crosby is great (such a sweetheart in real life), so I'll just shut up now... :angel_not:

240x320RedCommanderSela.jpgBUCKY-LARSON.jpg

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