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Everything posted by Corylea

  1. I've been coughing more or less continuously for the past couple of days, and it's been fairly miserable.  I find myself thinking about Leonard Nimoy, who died of COPD and whose last few months were pretty miserable with it, according to the documentary his daughter Julie made.  And yet they said he reacted with grace and wit, up till the end.

    Surely if Mr. Nimoy could die with grace, I can find it in myself to whine a little less about a bad cold.  Leonard Nimoy, still teaching me things after he's dead.


    Because everything in life IS about Star Trek. :-)


    1. Sim


      Corylea, only the best wishes, and a speedy recovery to the maximum of the possible extent! It would be nice if Bones could help out with a little cordrazine, but I'm sure you'll get over it even without it... until then, you have my sympathies, heavy colds can be terrible. If you feel feverish, try some atonal music by Schoenberg, that does help!

    2. Sehlat Vie

      Sehlat Vie

      Yes, it is.  Hehe...  

      And the late Leonard Nimoy is a great life coach, if you ask me.   His Spock inspired me throughout childhood (and occasionally into my adulthood).   

      Hope you feel better as soon as possible!

  2. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    I thought Quinto's Spock was a valid interpretation of a human-Vulcan hybrid, even though he was very different from the character Mr. Nimoy played. Since Quinto was in a reboot, I was happy for him to give us his own interpretation of the character in that timeline. But in the Prime timeline, I want to see Spock being like the one Mr. Nimoy played. I want a restrained and logical scientist, not an action hero who happens to have pointed ears. I watched all four seasons of Heroes, and Quinto was excellent in it, especially in the little-watched 4th season, when he got to be several different kinds of Sylar, from evil to good to even naive. So I know he's an excellent actor, but his interpretation of the character -- partly guided by the writing of the reboot movies -- is a much more human version of Spock. I prefer my Spock to be mostly Vulcan. And yes, I'm aware that Cage-era Spock behaved differently than Kirk-era Spock, because Number One was supposed to be the restrained and logical one during "The Cage." Since only the parts of "The Cage" that are in "The Menagerie" are technically canon, I maintain that the unSpocklike things we see him do in the Cage footage that's in "The Menagerie" is part of the Talosian illusion.
  3. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    I think it's likely to be Number One. During "The Menagerie," Spock said the things they were seeing happened 13 years ago. Since he said that during the first season of TOS, the Talos IV stuff should have happened about 2 years before "Will You Take My Hand."
  4. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    Ah, that's interesting! Thanks for passing along that tidbit. Ah, cool catch! I usually pay so much attention to the people that I totally miss what's going on with the objects. So, did the bowl actually contain grapefruit juice, which is what the Tranya was made of in "The Corbomite Maneuver"?
  5. Sarek

    Actually, I've read that Mark Lenard got more fan mail than Leonard Nimoy, the week that "Journey to Babel" aired. So you're clearly NOT alone. Personally, I've had a grudge against Sarek for decades because of the way he treated Spock in "Journey to Babel," so he isn't sexy to me, but yeah, more fan mail than Nimoy suggests that I'm in the minority on that one.
  6. Sarek

    I finally saw "Sarek" for the first time.* I'm SO glad I waited until the first season of Discovery was over to watch it! Man, Mark Lenard has more gravitas in his little finger than James Frain has in his whole body. I realize that a Vulcan is hard to play, and I'm sure Mr. Frain is doing the best he can. But damn, Lenard was incredible! (It's really starting to look like Sehlat Vie's alternate universe theory is correct, because seeing the Prime Sarek again ... Discovery's Sarek is SO not the same guy!) And Patrick Stewart was wonderful in the feeling-all-Sarek's-emotions scene. Yes, of course your human wives knew you loved them. Silly Sarek! But does that mean that Sarek never melded with his human wives, not once in many decades of marriage? Or did Picard just assume that they'd never melded? Because if *I* were married to a Vulcan, you can be damned sure I'd have asked for at least one meld! There was a serving of Star Trek cheese in there somewhere, but it was still a very fine episode. * (I'll remind those of you who don't remember me that I lived in a TV-free household for a couple of decades, so although I first saw TOS during its summer reruns in 1969 and have adored it since then, I'm just now working my way through other Star Treks. I've seen the first 7 episodes of TNG, the first two seasons of VOY, the first season and a half of ENT, and I'm saving DS9 to watch with my husband, who claims he'll watch it with me but hasn't yet)
  7. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    If the bridge fills with smoke, no one can SEE a freaking touchscreen, but if the helmsman has been using their station for a long time, they'd be able to push the right buttons to get them away, just by feel.
  8. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    Most viewers? That's certainly possible, but I've actually heard a number of other people hope that they don't show Spock, so I wonder what a poll would say. I think if they show Spock, it will take a lot of the luster away from Burnham, and since they want the show to be about her, I think Discovery's showrunners might well shy away from putting Spock in it. I think exploring Burnham's relationship with Spock might well happen in the tie-in novels, rather than in the show itself.
  9. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    And that wouldn't be confusing at all!
  10. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    Yes, but if they take it away from her, SHE can't use it, so the threat that's keeping them under her rule is gone. Once that threat is gone, they can go back to business as usual, which was apparently carving up the Federation as spoils of war for the various houses. That could have been part of the point, you know. If you're going to be all aggressive and warlike, this is what comes of that. Star Trek doesn't always show us a better way to be; sometimes it shows us the perils of the path we're on. "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" comes to mind... I adored seeing the Enterprise and hearing a call from Captain Pike, and the TOS music over the end credits made me tear up. I think it would be great to have a few episodes where they interact with Pike, but I really hope they don't have Spock in it, because I don't want them to mess up the Spock we already have. Spock can be on leave, attending an astrophysics conference, or unconscious in sickbay, or temporarily lent out to another ship that needs his expertise. There are lots of ways to get around having Spock in it while still having Pike.
  11. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    Travel taking exactly as long as the plot requires IS a fine old Star Trek tradition. It doesn't actually make sense, but I find myself willing to overlook it; Star Trek has always required a bit of hand-waving. Er, as best we know, Season 2 isn't until 2019. Because the show is on a streaming service and doesn't fill a network time slot, it doesn't have to be ready at any particular time.
  12. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    I was tired of the Klingon war and wanted it to go away, and I know many other fans felt the same way. The writers did make it go away, and I think maybe they expected us to be so happy the war ended without genocide that we wouldn't think about it too hard. Say WHAT? Have they MET Star Trek fans? Thinking about it too hard is what we do!
  13. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    We usually agree with one another so much that I could be your alternate-universe self (from a nicer universe than the Mirror one, obviously) ... but not this time. While I did enjoy many of the same things that you enjoyed, from the return to core Star Trek values to Clint Howard's cameo to sassy Saru to that glimpse of the ship that will always be first in my heart, I didn't find this episode nearly as satisfying as you did. The resolution of the Klingon war felt too easy and didn't completely make sense to me. If the detonator is all that's keeping L'Rell in power, how come they don't jump on her and grab it or steal it from her the first time she falls asleep? I just didn't buy it. I was glad to see a resolution to the war, and I was glad that resolution didn't involve genocide, but my suspension of disbelief just couldn't stretch quite that far. I'm happy to put the war behind us, but I was hoping the wrap-up would work a bit better. We'd been hoping the writers wouldn't press the time-travel reset button, and they didn't, but I actually think I might have found that more sensible and more satisfying that what they did do. I think I'd have found it more believable. Well, in as much as time travel is ever believable. I also didn't think Sarek was that much more in character, considering that he SMILED at Burnham. And he's SO happy about her being in Starfleet that he asked to be the one to give her her commander's pin back? Blue-eyed Sarek is clearly from an alternate universe. This. All of this! Our imagination was, indeed, supposed to fill in the gaps.
  14. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    He's much too old to be Cage-era Pike; I really hope they get someone else. Yes, it felt too easy to me, too. The Klingons have caused THAT much devastation, and you end it all by handing L'Rell an iPad? I think the creative team wanted the morality-play element, where Burnham and the rest of the Disco crew stood up (literally) against war crimes and genocide, but these writers have proven quite creative; I'd think they could have managed that with a little more gravitas. The slumming-in-an-Orion-nightclub segment felt overlong and not really necessary to me; if they'd cut half of that, they could have given ending the season-long war more than a nod and a smile.
  15. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    Yes, that's part of the problem I have with Discovery; this guy feels like some other Vulcan, not Sarek. Maybe Spock can have been injured on a landing party, and he'll be unconscious in sickbay when Discovery contacts the Enterprise. That would get him out of the way without changing either canon or this version of Sarek. This Sarek smirked at Michael towards the end. I mean really!
  16. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    While I yield to no one in my affection for Spock, I'm a bit leery about having him in Discovery. Spock is a difficult character to play -- as witness all the lackluster Vulcans we've seen over the years -- and I'd much, much MUCH rather not have Spock in Discovery than have him played badly. The Enterprise has emitted a distress call, and Captain Pike is the one calling, so they might not need to have Spock in the next episode; the Discovery crew could consult with the captain and the chief engineer of the Enterprise or something. And since this is during the 18-year rift -- during the time when Sarek tells Kirk he wants another guide -- Sarek wouldn't ask to speak to Spock or even ask how he is.
  17. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    For sure better than Season 1 of TNG or ENT. Season 1 of TOS was really amazingly strong (though I know you were leaving that out by talking about modern incarnations). Given that they were making up the Star Trek world and everything in it, Season 1 of TOS looks better all the time, especially if you watch it in production order. Still, I'm hooked enough to wonder who they're picking up at Vulcan, so I'm on board for next season.
  18. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    You called it! Right on the nose, I'm very impressed! Now that the season is over, I find that I enjoyed the ride, but it felt as if it all added up to LESS than the sum of its parts. I liked it but didn't love it.
  19. Episode 1.15 “Will You Take My Hand?” Discussion Thread

    Some TOS episodes were meant to be taken seriously, and some were comedy. I don't think the comedy episodes were meant to be taken seriously. You think Kirk really set up Sigma Iotia II to pay tribute to the Federation in "A Piece of the Action"? You think it took days for them to figure out a logic problem that would freeze the androids in "I, Mudd"? I think they play fast and loose with characterization -- of the people, of Starfleet, and of the Federation -- whenever they make a comedic episode. I think "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad" was a comedic episode in the tradition of "I, Mudd" and "A Piece of the Action," and as such, nothing that happened in it was meant to be taken too seriously. So, yeah, Harry Mudd was too competent and Lorca was too lenient, but none of that is real, in a sense. The comedy episodes are kind of outside of normal canon, following their own comedic rules.
  20. Yes, that's certainly possible. If so, it would be character development for him, since we've seen him scolding her for having "human emotions" in the past. It would be nice if it were character development, though there's still the "But Sarek is a PACIFIST" problem.
  21. I'm not disputing that Sarek DID love both Spock and Amanda -- though he chose a hell of a way to show it during "Journey to Babel" -- I'm saying that it's not in character for Sarek to say that love is a good thing and Burnham should allow herself to love. Sarek was only able to talk about love a century from now, when he had the Vulcan equivalent of Alzheimer's Disease. A person can change a lot in a hundred years, plus a disease that completely dismantles his emotional controls can show the inner life that he's always kept under wraps before. But his behavior in "Sarek" is NOT normal behavior for him; that's kinda the point of his having the disease. What Sarek said in this episode isn't gushy FOR A HUMAN. For a Vulcan, yes, I think it does qualify as gushy. The TOS-era Sarek was a very buttoned-up guy, and when Spock dies in TWOK, and his body is recovered in TSFS, the closest Sarek gets is "My logic is uncertain where my son is concerned." His son is DEAD, and he's pleading for his soul to be reunited with his body, and the most emotional he gets is "My logic is uncertain where my son is concerned." Given THAT background for the character, yes, I think Sarek is gushy -- gushy FOR HIM -- in this episode. There are twelve Constitution-class starships in the fleet. I never got the impression that there were twelve ships total in the fleet, just that a Constitution-class starship was bigger, more powerful, and had more crew, so there were very few of the top-of-the-line ships. TOS made a distinction several times between a ship and a starship. In "Bread and Circuses," Claudius tells Kirk that he doesn't have the guts to watch Spock and McCoy die, so he'll give in and bring his crew down to the planet, and Claudius knows this because Merik didn't have the guts. Merik chimes in and says, "He commands not just a spaceship, Proconsul, but a starship. A very special vessel and crew. I tried for such a command." So a starship isn't just any old ship. Similarly, in "This Side of Paradise," Leia says that she's never seen a starship before. Since she's only been on the planet for four years, she had to have gotten there on a ship, but that ship wasn't a starship; it was just a ship. There are lots of ships; it's only starships that are few. Of course, I understand that you were mostly being a devil's advocate in this section. Looking forward to tonight! Can't wait to see how they wrap it all up!
  22. Because my husband's been too sick to watch Discovery for the past week, I've only just now seen this episode. Oh, my! Such a lot going on here! I'm still digesting it all, but a few things stuck out for me: 1. I'm sorry, but that's not Sarek. The guy who told Spock he married Amanda because it seemed the logical thing to do at the time is not going to be all gushy about how love is always a good idea. And the Sarek who disowned Spock -- not for a month or two but for EIGHTEEN YEARS -- over whether it's ever reasonable to use force is not the man we're watching now. This guy is much more nuanced and reasonable, and I think he's probably a more interesting character ... but only his ears and his ability to do mind melds make him seem Vulcan. 2. Saru's continuing development and increasing ability to lead is great to see! The guy who didn't wait for Cornwell to get them all killed but who ordered the ship away once it was clear they were in danger is SO different from the guy who asked the computer what made a good leader, earlier in the season. 3. Loved, loved, loved Tilly's standing up and walking over to Tyler's table. That's true Starfleet, and she's gonna make a hell of a captain someday! It takes guts to go against what everyone else is doing -- and as a CADET on a ship full of real officers, no less -- but it was the right thing to do, and I'm so proud of her for doing it. The writers are making Tilly a real hero, and Mary Wiseman continues to rise to every challenge. 4. The Starfleet we saw in TOS just can't be an organization that was nearly wiped out by a horrific war ten years ago, so they're going to have to undo the war somehow. I think L'Rell's comment about how Klingons won't stop once they've tasted your blood might have been a clue that the thing that needs to happen is to make it so that they never have tasted Starfleet's blood. It would be kinda disappointing to have everything we just saw have not have actually occurred, but if the crew of the Discovery remembers it all, we can still have the character growth those events caused. Can't wait for tomorrow! I wonder if the last episode might be as much longer as one of the earlier episodes was shorter, since it's hard to imagine that they can wrap everything up in only 45 minutes. Now I finally get to go read what people are thinking about this episode! It's been hard, waiting for my husband to become well enough to watch it!
  23. Vulcan nerve pinch

    When Leonard Nimoy made up the Vulcan neck pinch, he said that Vulcans emitted a "special energy" from their fingers -- possibly related, as you said, to telepathic energy -- which was what made it work. Unfortunately, that never got actually written into a script, so we've seen humans learn how to do it. I think the "special energy" idea makes it make a bit more sense, and I wish that had been preserved. I'm surprised to see the fandom has settled on calling it the Vulcan NERVE pinch, since when it was used in TOS, it was used frequently enough in scripts that it was abbreviated "FSNP," for "Famous Spock NECK Pinch."
  24. Episode 1.13 "What's Past is Prologue" Discussion Thread

    She's beyond impressive! Isaacs has a record of being extremely generous to his co-stars. Not to take anything away from Michelle Yeoh, who IS remarkable, but that "drunken hippo" thing is vintage Isaacs. I saw a video of an interview that a bunch of the Harry Potter cast did where they were asked what their favorite line was that their character had said in any of the HP films. Some of the actors just mentioned the line, and some milked the question for all it was worth, prolonging their moment in the sun for as long as possible. Only Isaacs deflected the question to talk about how great some OTHER actor was. I'm paraphrasing, but this is fairly close to what he said. He said, "Daniel Radcliffe [Harry Potter] and I were filming a scene, and it didn't feel quite right. I told the director I thought it was off because we needed exit lines, and he said, 'Well, go ahead and make something up,' then turned to Daniel and told him that I'd be making up a new line for Lucius, and Daniel should answer the line as he thinks Harry would. So I said something like, 'Well, Potter, you win this time, but your little friends might not be so lucky next time, without you there to protect them.' And Daniel puffed out his 12-year-old chest, glared at me, and said, 'Don't worry, Mr. Malfoy, because I WILL be there to protect them; I'll ALWAYS be there!' And I was amazed that a 12-year-old who'd basically just learned to act last year was so thoroughly in character that he could make up lines in the moment. So that's my favorite line, that line of Daniel's." A generous guy, Mr. Isaacs!
  25. Episode 1.13 "What's Past is Prologue" Discussion Thread

    Since I don't watch the "scenes from next week's episode," I'm just popping in for a minute. I'm mostly avoiding this place so as to avoid spoilers. (I'll pop in again later to see if anyone followed up anything I said, but I'm not reading the whole thread -- even though I really, really want to -- so as not to hear about those scenes from next week.) Something I enjoyed about this episode that I haven't seen anyone else mention: At the end of "Mirror, Mirror," Kirk tries to talk Mirror Spock into rebelling against the Empire by saying that a government based on tyranny cannot endure. And in this episode, Lorca tries to talk Burnham into joining him by telling her that a government based on idealism cannot endure. I thought it was a brilliant callback to "Mirror, Mirror" to reverse the direction of the speech and have a Mirror character tell a Prime character that THEIR government is doomed to failure! (I disagree, of course, but that doesn't keep me from admiring the parallel.) My husband and I both found over-the-top evil Lorca way less interesting and way less compelling than Stealth Mirror Lorca. I thought watching Lorca trying to contain his evil, only to have it leak out from time to time, was way more interesting than having him be openly evil. Some of you probably remember how much I adore Spock. It occurs to me that part of what I enjoyed about Lorca -- until this episode -- is a similar dynamic. Spock is trying to contain his emotions, but we see hints of them that tell us there's a LOT more under there. Stealth Mirror Lorca was trying to contain his evil, but we see hints of it that tell us there's a LOT more under there. The difference -- for me, at least -- is that I enjoyed Spock's fully letting go in episodes like "This Side of Paradise" more than I enjoyed watching Lorca fully let go in the current episode. But then, I like emotions better than evil. Michelle Yeoh! Damn, the lady still has it! Just HOW high can she kick? I usually just put up with the TOS fight scenes, because I knew the network thought the show needed some hand-to-hand combat to attract viewers, so the sometimes-laughable fight scenes were just the show paying its dues to the network. But the Shatner Flying Kick is not as interesting -- to me, at least -- as the Yeoh Mile-High Kick. IMDB says she's 55 years old? Geeze, that's amazing! Doug Jones manages to act his socks off even when his entire head is encased in rubber. The guy's a genius. Saru has stepped up really well, and it's nice to see the bridge crew beginning to jell and beginning to look to Saru as their leader. He's come a long way from the guy who had to look up how to lead in the computer! I was actually crying during the part where Georgiou was giving Burnham time to escape, facing down all those people alone; I didn't think I could stand to watch Georgiou die a second time. But of course she didn't. At least, not yet. And shades of "The Enterprise Incident," to have one person piggyback on another's transport. I have to wonder what Saru is going to have to say about Burnham's bringing Mirror Georgiou back with her. I mean, he misses Prime Georgiou, too, but this is NOT Prime Georgiou. I have to say that Burnham's Vulcan logic seems to be melting faster than an ice cube in hell. All in all, a fun episode, and one where I thought Burnham and Georgiou really shone. Makes losing Lorca a little bit easier to bear.