The Founder

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  1. Hah. I got lucky cause one of the employees loudly yelled out during the mid-credits "If you're waiting for an after credits scene - there isn't one."
  2. I just came back from seeing it. I won't say any spoilers since it is so new, but I will say this movie did a great job. It was a great addition to this universe. It certainly didn't feel as bleak as the three DC movies before it. I will say this - no after-credits scene.
  3. If DC was dying ... Wonder Woman just changed that. The film was a nice addition to the DCverse.
  4. Just finished this episode. Not a terrible one, but rather slow. This episode was, to be fair, a focus on character development. Odo's, Jake's, Kira's. In that regard - it did succeed. For Kira - her (to me) uninteresting relationship with Bareil. An aspect I find interesting is .... the Bajoran religious order seems to be loosely based off of the Roman Catholic Church. I wonder if Bareil being in a relationship is "scandalous" or the vedeks can marry and have relationships? I don't know. We don't really get much in that regard. This episode was just for them to share a kiss. I do love Quark's nefarious plot to distract her. Seems like him working with his cousin (Gaila?) would have been the better focus. I also love that when Odo is away - Kira makes sure to be on Quark's ass. Haha. I wonder if Odo asked her to do that? For Jake - I really enjoyed this subplot. One thing DS9 was so good at was showing the average life of civilians. It is interesting to see not all humans want to join Starfleet. And it was a really nice father/son moment when Sisko did not explode in anger but rather understood Jake's desire to carve his own path in life. Rather than simply being Ben Sisko part 2. Plus, this episode started the path for Jake to become a writer. Odo/Dax - The plot here was interesting. It was good for character growth with Odo. Having been rewatching the old seasons of DS9 - it's clear why Odo starts off so strict and stand-offish. No one was ever really his friend in the old days. They either used him for entertainment (Cardassian neck trick), used him for his ability to be intuitive (Dukat), or saw him as a fascinating specimen (Mora). Kira was probably his first true friend and that relationship was strained when she admitted she lied to him in the past about that murder. When he meets the little girl and she genuinely likes Odo - you could tell he was moved by it. His final moment of shape-shifting for her was nice because you can tell it's a big deal for him to do that for someone. We get another mention of the ominous "Dominion". Which I obviously loved. The fact that their world is under brutal occupation made me think of how the little girl told Odo they have "scary stories" of Changelings. I wonder if their superstition and mythology was largely influenced by the presence of the Founders. Seems like this quiet, agrarian species may have gotten a visit from the Founders and not just a Vorta supervisor? I did notice a minor plot hole (maybe not one?) - but the "protector" (their equivalent to a sheriff I guess) reacted in shock when Odo showed him transporters. He beams from the building and returns to show him that he could leave anytime he wanted to. The "protector" reacts in shock and is like "where did he go!?" as if he never saw a transporter before. Than, literally moments later, Jadzia and Odo ask if he tried searching for the missing villagers by scanning for transport signatures. He then replies that it was the first thing he tried.... So if he knew of transporters - why did he react in such confusion and shock when Odo beamed away? I chalk that up to his program malfunctioning. All in all - this was a nice episode and I loved how Odo actually saw the holograms as real people. When the village leader resigned himself to them being gone. Odo gave a rather impassioned plea not to give up on them and how they are just real as anyone else. The poor EMH on VOY could have used Odo during his trial for sentience. 7/10.
  5. Fair points. I'm not necessarily saying this shouldn't be addressed or that it isn't our problem to deal with. It should be challenged. I don't doubt these people (or some of them at least) genuinely think they are Star Trek fans. But it still doesn't make any sense from a logical point of view. A person can call themselves fans of anything but what makes a fan? I know the argument is "They like the focus on Jim Kirk being with "hott" Green women and kicking Klingon ass!" Ok - fair enough. But how often does he does that? For every time he does that - he is opting for peace with his enemies (the Gorn in "The Arena" or the Klingons in "Errand of Mercy"). So they are fans of Star Trek based off of less than a handful of episodes of TOS? They love Trek because they loved the Dominion War in DS9? Because they liked Seven of Nine's catsuit in VOY? That doesn't sound like the image I have of a "Star Trek fan" in my head. To me - the diversity, calls for peace, unity, social cohesion, post-racial politics (like the so called-white genocide) are things of the past. Kirk and Uhura - first interracial kiss. Jadzia and Lenara Kahn (female/female kiss). Non-Binary gendered aliens (the episode where Riker was attracted to said alien character). etc. etc. etc. Trek has always leaned hard on the liberal spectrum. Not softly. (I agree with you it completely dropped the ball for gay people, though) It makes no sense that they call themselves "fans" but hate every aspect of Star Trek's social message. But "I love the photon torpedoes and Orion slave girls!". It's not .... much of a fan, then. They literally do not get Star Trek at all. That is not me being a snobby elitist/purist Trek fan. It's just common sense. It's like me saying "Wait ... what is this "spirituality" in Star Wars? Yes - I know the Force has always been there. Yes - I know the spiritual warrior monks have always been there. Yes - I know ghosts and a seeming afterlife has always been there. But what is this? I feel this is pushing atheist genocide! I like Star Wars for Leia in a slave costume and dog fights in space with the star fighters!". Would anyone really claim I have an understanding of Stars Wars or am a true fan? I do agree with you that there is a massive spectrum in the Trek fandom. These people, for better or worse, are a part of that spectrum. We can't pretend otherwise. I agree with you. But to me - they fall in the "I don't understand Star Trek whatsoever, but I sure do love spectacle!" end of the spectrum. Plus - I honestly think a few of them are just trolls that seek out a way to spread their "message". What I mean to say about all of this is .... it's just such a head scratcher. It's not like Trek is subtle and people can take what they want from it. It's literally famous for having minorities as main characters when that was not done. Having a Soviet main character. Remember when Kirk said he didn't want racism on his bridge when his helmsman made a comment about Vulcans/Romulans? How can these people get the message of Trek so completely wrong? It's funny - cause you've often told us, Mr. Picard - that you're not a Trek fan in the traditional sense. In fact, you mostly love a small corner of Trek. But for someone that is like that you are really good at understanding the fandom. You break the differences amongst us down really well. I agree with your list of critics of Discovery completely.
  6. Great episode. This is actually a great stand alone (although I agree that the ending was really rushed). The tone/atmosphere was so on point. You genuinely felt how the O'Brien clone felt. Trapped. Isolated. Confused. Worried. The build up was fantastic and I enjoyed how it was told from the point of view of his log. Colm Meany is so good at carrying an episode by himself. Later on in the seasons - the entire cast becomes good at it, but he was solid since season 1 (IMO). .... and then the conclusion .... BOOM. What a reveal. Sehlat Vie is quite right in saying it has that classic horror feel to it. This almost could have been an episode of Tales From the Crypt, Outer Limits, or Twilight Zone. Really disturbing for Star Trek. I will say that I find some aspects odd. Why did they let the clone wander around the station? I know at the end they explain they weren't 100% sure if the Paradrans had really kidnapped O'Brien but ... you'd think to be safe - they'd arrest the clone first and try to sort it out. Instead of forcing his wife and young daughter to live with a (potentially) pre-programmed assassin... But I guess there wouldn't be an episode if they had played it smart. I will say this - the episode had the potential of being a copy of TNG's "The Mind Eye". Starfleet officer kidnapped and turned into an assassin to disrupt a peace between the Federation and an alien power. I am glad DS9 switched it up with the clone angle to make it unqiue. *Realizes this is yet another episode about an alien species that kidnapped a Starfleet officer and Starfleet Command does anything about it - - - - * The ending was pretty sad and I do feel like he went from being a human being to an "it" that they talked about while he slowly laid there dying. The morbid side of me wondered if they had a funeral for him or simply left his corpse to be disposed of by the aliens.... 10/10 episode. Hah! Yes. In fact, I think this is the beginning of them. I can't recall any in season 1 .... ? I couldn't agree more.
  7. I'm pretty sure after saving the UFP a million times - Picard and Kirk probably can live that life. lol But I agree with you.
  8. Ok - so I am returning to my DS9 marathon! And I just rewatched Paradise. I won't lie - in the past - I found this episode to be boring filler for Sisko's character development. I was one of those people that didn't appreciate the intellectual side of Trek as a kid. I cared more for cool aliens starship battles and good stories. Now that I love both that aspect and the philosophy - this episode is actually a gem (albeit a slow one). But something I really appreciate is ... this episode actually addresses something I often agonize, obsesses, and often whine about: the human condition in Star Trek. Roddenberry has always sold Star Trek as exploring the human condition and our potential if we just changed for the better. So we have the Federation which is a multi-planet, multi-cultural, multi-just bout everything union. But is it a union of ideas? Is there room for violence, aggression, greed, or other so-called negative qualities? Is there room for differing views on the "best of humanity"? I don't know .... cause we rarely see it. This episode actually explores this. We have Alixus (odd way of spelling her name) - this writer who, as Sisko puts it, seems to have an opinion on everything. From politics, to economics, to psychology exploring the human condition. She has a dim view of what Mankind had become. "The common conceit that the Human species has evolved over the last several centuries is ludicrous. What gains we have made have come at the cost of our own core identities. Man has lost touch with his true power." Ok - to me this is absolutely fascinating territory to explore. I know Trek tries to be more subtle about human metaphors and they often do through aliens, but this one is much more direct. And it is human versus human. Weirdly enough - Alixus says what I sometimes I feel about Mankind. Yes - of course I like that Mankind has gotten over its old hatreds and has learned to co-exist. I love that Mankind has erased the problems that hold us back as a species. I love that we have united as a species and look at each other as humans FIRST before anything else. I love that science is celebrated and championed. I love that we want to better ourselves. I love that, for the most part, we try not to harm each other. I love alllllll of the progress. The one aspect I find hard to .... fully back is the idea of "We work to better our species." On the one hand - humans are a herd species by nature and we do try to protect the herd. We often get frustrated when people selfishly live for themselves and do not leave a better world for the next generation. I agree with that to an extent ... But on the hand - I value my individuality and this Borg-lite idea of working to serve Man kind of rubs me the wrong way. Plus, the Federation is just one group, amongst many competing alien groups, that is trying to peacefully and without coercion ... absorb worlds. If 80% of the galaxy one day becomes UFP - what happens to the rest? They'll be forced to either stand alone in isolation or join the "club". Now, Alixus' focus isn't really on that. In fact - she has her own version of the herd mentality. She'd let her own son die "for the community". She seems to be anti-technology and interestingly enough tell Sisko that there are other scientists in the UFP that think like her. There seems to be a genuine fear or bitterness at how automated the human species had become. That we lost what has grounded her. She wants a return to the physical and less dependency on technology. (A silly thing since even the "primitive" tools they used was technology ...) In her writings - she says "Humans had become fat, lazy, and dull." I can't say that much is true. Humans still seem interesting, if not a bit cookie cutter good-guy...ish. Now I too loved the powerful moment when Sisko put himself back in the Hot Box torture/punishment device. In fact, according to the trivia for this episode, this was supposed to be a Sisko episode to show his strength. He sure did that. It was great and like Mr. Picard said - I love that Sisko didn't bother trying to argue with her anymore. It was useless. But I will say this .... I really wish this had been a TNG episode. And instead of Sisko/O'Brien - it was Picard/Data. Imagine what Alixus would have said had she seen Data. The personification of everything she hates in a humanoid form. And as much as I love Sisko - he didn't really debate her philosophy. He shows her the flaws and expressed concern for the settlers - but .... imagine the dialogue with Picard. Since Picard embraces the Trek philosophy at its most potent versus her push back of it .... it would have been great. I feel like this was a wasted opportunity. The focus clearly was meant to be about Mankind losing something ever since it entered the post-WWIII landscape. Imagine a debate with Picard on that? As for the rest of the episode - - - - - - - It wasn't bad. I feel like Jadzia/Kira parts were filler. We didn't really need all of that. They should have simply focused on Sisko/O'Brien and the colonists. We knew eventually the DS9 crew would search for them, find their runabout, and then beam them up. I didn't understand the Cassandra/Sisko part? There was an implication Alixus sent her to seduce Sisko but ... this makes little sense to me. Are they sexually open in this community? Or is the implication that Alixus has that much control? It makes no sense actually. I never got the vibe that these people were cultists and slavishly obeyed Alixus. I got the vibe that they crash landed on the planet, banded together to survive, and Alixus "made the best of their situation" with her philosophy. I know they were going for a Jim Jones compound type thing but .... they kind of failed on that end. Even at the end when they want to stay - it was more of a "....well....we've been here all this time and built all of this up.... so.... I guess it makes sense to stay." not a "WE MUST OBEY!" I liked Joseph (the former engineer) but I found it odd that he never found that device. Especially as he was the last to be "converted". But I guess Alixus was watching him far more closely than O'Brien. Speaking of - I love O'Brien putting his tactical skills to good use when he tricked Alixus' son. The ending ... left a lot to be desired. But it was nice that for once - villains were being made to pay for abducting and harming Starfleet officers. One note: people say "Why didn't she simply get a group of like minded people and go to an empty planet? Why trick these poor people?" I think its because if she made an open call - she'd have had a lot more colonists to govern and she wanted it relatively isolated and quiet. Plus, I bet it isn't easy to procure a colony vessel and beg the bureaucracy of the Federation to grant her a world of her choosing. All in all - a lot better than I remembered since I was a teen. 7/10.
  9. That actually makes more sense than the idea that everyone has turned into a philosopher, artist, or just joined Starfleet to do stuff. That everyone at least has a middle class existence so there is no more desperation, poverty, an inability for growth in ones social/economic circle. But I do think (and sincerely hope) that there is room for said growth. That not everything is handed to people. I saw this really good economics of Star Trek video. It starts off good (before the end turns into a focus on the contradictions on dialogue). It talks about how a post-scarcity resource would allow for essentially anything you could need. But maybe not everything you want. It is isn't really a real-life Venus Project so to speak. There are two things that cannot be given, though. Real-estate and labor. Joseph Sisko voluntarily offers his services as a chef, but no one forces him. Jake Sisko voluntarily writes stories and gives them away but no one forces him. Now they may work for "free", but there may be others that won't do that. That may not be motivated based on the idea that their artwork betters themselves and humanity. They may say they want money or Federation credits or latinum in exchange. I don't buy into the whole "Mankind has evolved" to be self sacrificing to the point where no human on Earth cares about living on a beach front or wanting the latest hover car. Sorry. I just don't buy it. In the words of Lily when Picard said they have a "more evolved sensibility". "BULL****!" I am reasonable enough to believe that humans evolved past OUR (21st century issues) but human nature cannot be so easily erased. And yes - I really overthink this. The economics of Trek fascinate me to no end. I think in the 23rd century - no replicators exist (as far as I know). And yeah - I expect menial tasks like that to be automated. There might be humans that "over see" the machines, but only if they break down they'll be around to repair them. I can't imagine most people wanting to "enrich" themselves by being at the bottom. Although ... I just rewatched DS9's "Paradise" and there could be humans like Alexus that do want to do work with their hands .... So who knows ... Wow - really great analysis. Seems like Bashir is right. That "their thing" doesn't mesh well with marriage (or is a lot harder than non-Starfleet officers). That actually makes me re think the "womanizer" characters a bit. And the.... "mananizer"? characters like Jadzia. The jumping from person to person and avoiding stable relationships for as long as possible types. Your comment about them being married to their ships is a good point. (well that is more for captains .... but yeah). It makes me kind of rethink Janeway/Chakotay too for that matter. At the time, Janeway wasn't really yet "married" to VOY yet. She was new to it just like any other officer. But relationships with fellow officers is dangerous because of the reasons you listed plus the potential for conflicts of interest. Such as Quinto's Spock giving Saldana's Uhura a switch to the Enterprise from the Farragut simply because she demanded it. I wonder if a random cadet making that demand to him would have flown the same way? Somehow Sisko made it work with Kassidy but I think it's because she's a starship captain. So to some degree, she understands the pressures of command and understands there are responsibilities that come with their roles. She would be far more sympathetic to him. Keiko's constant antagonism to Miles I think is simply poor writing because they were the only officer/civilian couple on Trek for a while. So they wanted to explore how that relationship could put a strain on a marriage. A career officer who constantly was in danger. Hell - in this very episode - he almost died on a seemingly random diplomatic mission. It really makes no sense that in all the time Keiko was with Miles, she didn't understand how difficult it would be to be married to a Starfleet officer. Surely she knew that it had its challenges. Or maybe she didn't mind when you flew around a floating palace like the ENT-D and the problems ensued when you went to the "frontier" in dangerous territory? I'm not sure. One thing I find interesting is ... you never see a character that started out as Starfleet and then retired somewhere down the line. So they could be explorers and see the universe for a few years (or even decades) and then retire at the rank of LT. Commander or Commander or something. Then they can settle down somewhere. Seems like every officer has to work their way up to captain/admiral for some reason ....
  10. Yeah ... I was wondering if that was the case. Like when Jake Sisko said he "sold" his first book or article to the Federation News Service and when Quark asked "For how much?" Sisko says "It's just an expression...." That sounds like work, though. And paying for things in a traditional sense. But it would make sense how some people get a cabin in the mountains (Kirk) or their own vineyard (Picards). I was like "The one thing a replicator can't give is real estate and skilled labor." (unless holograms and androids do all of it ....) Yeah, they didn't even wait for them to finish the last batch. haha.
  11. So I just rewatched this episode. Really great mostly because of Miles/Bashir. Although, to me, the beginning of their bromance was in "The Storyteller". But this episode definitely ratched it up a notch. I love that considering I love their friendship. It equals Kirk/Spock for me. I found certain details really interesting: 1) Bashir mentions a ballerina that was the first woman he fell in love with. Her father offered him a "job" at his hospital in Paris. Note the word "job". I thought on Earth money didn't exist and people don't work in the traditional way? I never got the vibe that Joseph Sisko's "job" was running his restaurant or Picard's brother's "job" was making wine. I got the vibe they wanted to do that because they loved it. Was job just a poor choice of word or do people work on Earth? (Outside of Starfleet). Sorry, but I think about these things. 2) Bashir mentions engineering extension courses. He mentions this again in a later episode. Good continuity. 3) I'm surprised Odo wasn't given a bigger role. He seemed suspicious about the details of their "deaths" but then he just accepts it. I guess because the previous episode was all about Odo - they didn't want to give him a larger role? I don't know. Seemed out of character. Although, I do appreciate that it wasn't Odo figuring it out through technobabble - as in noticing the time index was off or detecting an irregularity in the recording. Sometimes it is nice that it was good ole human intuition. 4) Good use of Keiko in comparison to her use in other episodes. The way she reacted to Sisko with this grim, but silent expression was telling. I guess being married to a Starfleet officer makes the significant other always prepared they may get that news. The last few lines was really funny. I guess that will be the last time Keiko will be suspicious of Miles drinking coffee in the afternoon. 5) Speaking of being married to a Starfleet officer ... I thought it was interesting when Bashir mentioned how their profession doesn't mix well with marriage. He isn't the only SF character to say that. It seemed like you give something up by joining Starfleet .... (If you want marriage in your life). Ok .... That was the good.... Now for my Trekkie whining: Yet another episode where aliens try to murder Starfleet officers and there is 0 payback for it. Between Geordie being reprogrammed by the Romulans to cause a war between the Klingons and the UFP or Garak trying to genocide the Founders (and get the Defiant crew killed in the process) .... I truly don't get how Starfleet has lasted this long. What ended up happening? This is the down side of "episodic" Trek - the plot had to wrap up neatly by the end. There couldn't be any follow up to it. In fact - this idea seems like it would've been better done on VOY. Cause at least the excuse is VOY just fled from the aliens and kept going. You're telling me the UFP didn't do anything? I get the UFP is peaceful and wouldn't just arbitrarily start a war over the killing of their officers but .... Stuff like this makes me hope S31 sent agents to those planets to "pay them back" for that...
  12. Well said. I just rewatched "Armageddon Game" and you're so right - the beginning of my favorite bromance next to Spock/Kirk haha.
  13. I won't comment too much on the ignorant complaints that people have about the new show, but I kind of cry foul that those are real Star Trek fans. I find that highly suspect considering the material that is Star Trek. The idea of diversity, multiculturalism, a soft type of socialism (for lack of a better political description for the UFP), anti-war (yes, even DS9 was anti-war - it was never glorified), anti-crony capitalism, etc. etc. etc. The idea that Star Trek has attracted these people is ... peculiar. I'm not saying Trek fans are perfect. None of us are. But I find that suspicious... Although, to be fair, they did not allow Trek to have a gay character because they felt a segment of us "weren't ready" for it. So maybe I'm wrong.
  14. Thank you for not lumping genuine critics of the show with people that want to fight some type of culture war. I've noticed people (outside of this forum) have lumped the critics with either those people or unreasonable people that want Discovery to look exactly like "The Cage" .... but in HD or something. For me - it might be too early to write off this show. The trailer was short, barely showed anything and isn't an accurate reflection of what the show will be. To me this is more of a teaser. But I definitely agree this is not the old Star Trek and I think those fans (like me) should just accept that.
  15. Opposites certainly attract indeed. I just always felt that he was so dull and Kira was more ... full of fire (especially the earlier seasons). They never really meshed to me. Even her and Shakaar. I feel like DS9 just put her with Bajoran men and hoped a convincing romance could come out of it. haha.
  16. This is a cool idea. Bariel was such a dreadfully bore of a character. I can't see what someone like Kira saw in him.
  17. Agreed. This would be a great idea. He's a damned good director.
  18. Give it a chance, Gus. You may be surprised. It may be awful. It may be good. At least watch the pilot episode and get a feel for it. It might surprise you that this is the Star Trek that brings back what we haven't had in a while.
  19. Agreed. TNG/DS9/VOY would not survive beyond season 1. Although, to be fair, if made today ... I'm sure their season 1s would have been a lot different. That is another thing that "hurt" ENT too. It started to become arc driven rather than episodic. It tried to balance the two like DS9 but by season 4 - most of the episodes were connected and I think that was jarring to some fans.
  20. This is a pretty interesting analysis. I agree with a large part of it. You're certainly correct that back in that day - prequels were all the rage thanks to The Phantom Menace. They were probably hoping they could jump onto that bandwagon. In theory - the idea isn't bad. There is a lot of rich lore to mine from before TOS, during it, and after it. I can understand the temptation, but there comes a responsibility that comes with it. They wanted to do their own thing without any of the "restrictions" that came with doing a pre-TOS-era show. It's why the NX-ENT looks barely indistinguishable from a ship in the 24th century. I understand that most of us are tired/exhausted of the canon arguments but .... it is important to a large chunk of fans. I will say that ENT did try to minimize any "damage". Such as the Ferengi not naming themselves for example. I didn't appreciate their efforts until after the show ended sadly. Which brings me to another point - you make a really good argument about this was the first show to really suffer the full brunt of a dreaded .... forum. Dun dun dunnnnnn. Each trailer to a future episode was dissected before the episode could even come out. The moment they showed glimpses of the Borg or the Mirror Universe or whatever - there were people saying "I'm DONE with this show!". I think that hurt viewership because people didn't even bother trying to watch the said episode and see that it wasn't this canon train wreck. Yeah - I can't say "fatigue" ever hit me with Star Trek. I love the franchise so much and politics and social events seem to always make Star Trek relevant. Well, the few times they focused on relevant things and not "Earth is about to be destroyed" episodes. I think the fatigue was more in the repetition of plots. ENT, in a lot of ways, was VOY-lite. And VOY was TNG-lite. So it was a watered down idea of another watered down idea. But ENT should have done what it was meant to do - be a prequel. S4 may be derided as "fan service" but that is what ENT should have been from day one. We didn't need some temporal war or stuff like that. If you are going to make a show about the founding of the UFP - then focus on that. Focus on the building of the Prime Directive. Focus on the creation of much beloved tech of the late series. Etc. Not do episodes that would have been seen on VOY. I mean this one literally - they were copying episodes. There was an episode in ENT that was a direct copy of VOY (something about flying through a nebula while the crew slept and only one crewman was awake). I never looked at it that way but you are quite right that a lot of pressure was on ENT because it was "alone". At least DS9 had TNG and VOY running concurrently for the Trek fans that wanted a show with an exploratory ship. And for those annoyed by VOY, they had DS9 to watch. I'm not sure I am prepared to write off ENT as separate time line. I do agree that the constant meddling in the past probably altered some things and that is reasonable to say. Worf said phasers came much later than ENT. Maybe not? Maybe Chekov leaving that phaser in the "nuclear wessel" changed that. Who knows? I can't imagine Sisko replacing Bell during the Bell Riots had 0 impacts. Although, thanks to Abramsverse, nothing our heroes did in the past could affect the time line since it just made a new one. BLEH. My point is - I think ENT did enough "damage control" that it still works mostly in canon. I can't think of anything that is so glaring that it causes the whole thing to collapse. The issue was - the show spent half of its writing in "damage control" in the first place! But back on topic: You make a lot of good points on why ENT seems so uniquely hated. I chalk it up, partially at least, to the age of the forums. Would TNG/DS9/VOY have survived this much scrutiny of made today? Food for thought.
  21. I'm with Gus - I actually enjoy a lot of Trek V. A lot of it is dribble too - I admit. But Kirk's scene about needing his pain and feeling he will die alone was really powerful to me. The same with Spock and his relationship with his father or McCoy and his father's death. Plus - the Starfleet crew standing up to "god" is too good to pass up. Even if it was just another non-corporeal villain of the week. My guilty pleasure indeed.
  22. You and me both. Despite any whining from me - I hope this show succeeds. It hit me that this is the first Trek on television in over ten years. Growing up in a time when we had Trek back to back to back on t.v. this was really weird. Haha good point actually. I think they will dial it back a bit, though. Abramsverse did (a little) to make the characters a bit more relatable in the sense that they didn't have all the GodTech of the world at their finger tips. I hope that is the case with Discovery. I am also hoping we get a bit more variety in uniforms. For goodness sakes - give the security officers some type of body armor! Even TOS movies had that! Did anyone else notice that the Captain and the XO had the same clothing as Rey from The Force Awakens.
  23. I think most of us agree that the surroundings, technology, ship interior, the buttons on a console, chevron, etc. are not what is core to Star Trek. Even I agree with that and I am the one making a big stink about how the ship looks. Star Trek, however poorly, has had a (semi) coherent aspect to it. It had small flaws (like the wrong pips on a character in one episode) to medium flaws (like the Trill looking radically different) to big flaws (Picard being able to go back in any point in time but he goes back to 1 minute before Soren launches his death missile). The issue here is .... their emphasis that this is meant to take place in the same time line as The Cage, TOS, TNG, etc. The looks are incredibly jarring. Now again, this could just be superficial. They may have shinier consoles and holograms, but they don't have the fire power or speed or advance sensors of the ENT-E. That may very well be true. This could just be purely aesthetics. Nothing more. Which, in that case, I am fine with just "pretending" it looked this way all along. But I do think Trek needs to be somewhat coherent if they plan on doing a show that has an arc. For a show like the original or Twilight Zone it is ok to do a story driven solely by the writing and good acting. But if this leads into more episodes that connect - I honestly hope they have a bit more consistency. Now that we are on the topic of technology - I am wondering how they will handle it. The one issue I had with the TNG-era Trek is ... the technology seemed to reach its peak. Replicators, transporters, powerful weapons really made it hard to tell stories at time because the crews were so ensconced in safe technology. I hope Discovery has a more "frontier" feel to it and there is a danger to "being out there" in the unknown.
  24. Is this your way of saying you're not open to a Shatner cameo? Haha very true .... I am intrigued by the new Data/Spock type alien. He is played by Doug Jones. Apparently, really famous for doing strange characters in movies/shows. I am wondering what he will bring to the table. Also - I am wondering .... is the XO a half Vulcan or a human raised on Vulcan?